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Subject: "Toth's Theory" Archived thread - Read only
 
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DonBradley
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Apr-07-02, 01:49 PM (EST)
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"Toth's Theory"
 
   I thought I'd bring this over here too, even though most of you know my theories already.

"Requesting Toth's Theory & Views"
Brief synopsis:
Not an inside job.
Not a kidnapping gone wrong.
Murder right from the start.

Despite the minimal trappings of perversion, the intruder is probably not a pedophile at all but instead prefers the use of adult females, though probably not their company or companionship.

The crime is a brutal and protracted killing. It is not a sex crime. The sexual activity appears "minimal" in comparison to the time and efforts devoted to other aspects and activities of the crime that night.

A pervert would have wanted to do perverse acts on JonBenet, not write even a short note about it. A pervert would have wanted to take her somewhere else for extended activities.

I view this crime as similar in concept to a sniper shooting an abortionist: it is a "mission kill", not a crime of passion or perversion. Just as the sniper probably never met the abortionist, I think the intruder never met JonBenet or ANY of the Ramseys. It is likely he viewed them as he "cased the joint" and may have seen what was clearly a family departing on some excursion in the afternoon, but he never met or interacted with them directly.

I think the intruder had an abiding hatred and an all-consuming intense rage related to certain thematic aspects that I have previously commented on but can not elaborate on in any fashion whatsoever without jeopardizing certain personnel involved in the investigation.

I've never viewed this as some sort of 'inside job' or 'cover-up' in any way. The media campaign and police obsession is revolting. Why would anyone suddenly decide to kill one of their children: such acts would require a long history of a troubled life beset by severe poverty and drug abuse as well as protracted psychiatric problems.

I've been wary of McSanta because he liked being around kids and my suspicions were heightened by the discovery of his pornography habits, but I do not think he was involved in the crime despite his strange fascination with JonBenet.

I've been concerned about Fleet White, but have concluded that he is simply a very strange character who got caught up in this mess. I think that any 'backbone' he might have would be found on the skeletons in his closet. He may be a bit creepy, but that does not make him a murderer.


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-02, 01:52 PM (EST)
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1. ""with feeling""
In response to message #0
 
   Just the way a music score can indicate emotion, so too can a criminal.

If a corpse bears dozens of knife wounds, the cops will usually look for a husband or boyfriend since extreme emotion is indicated.

I view the crime as showing great pleasure in the murder and great pride in his achievements in crafting that note, I don't see much in the way of perversion.

Pedophile's dream? Doubt it.


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jamesonadmin
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Apr-07-02, 02:18 PM (EST)
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2. "I think"
In response to message #1
 
   the killer planned a murder - had very concrete expectations of what it was going to be like - - and I think it didn't go as planned. I see what started out as a very organized crime.... and ended in panic.

JMO


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laces_undone
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Apr-07-02, 03:49 PM (EST)
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3. "i don't see panic"
In response to message #2
 
   appears the perp walked right out of there...and remains "clean".


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-02, 05:01 PM (EST)
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7. "Unraveled?"
In response to message #3
 
   I don't see any panic or coming unglued in any manner.

He calmly fashioned the garotte,,,then he used it.

He enjoyed it. He didn't panic. He never panics.


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laces_undone
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Apr-07-02, 04:10 PM (EST)
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4. "video killed the radio star...."
In response to message #0
 
   regarding the note: all the references to movies, or videos...the similar phrases. wouldn't this indicate someone with a lot of time on their hands during that period in which to watch tv movies, etc...someone perhaps on school or work vacation. someone nearby in the neighborhood who would know when the family was there or not....the letter sounds like the rantings of a teenager to me, or someone immature, at least. this perp had a lot of time to spend in waiting, in looking around. however, no need to worry about leaving the pad around, or anything else for that matter, if one is wearing latex gloves. i would revisit the neighborhood. square one.


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myself
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Apr-07-02, 04:23 PM (EST)
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5. "toth"
In response to message #4
 
   your theory is very brief.
are you going to tell us the order of events?
obviously you only believe there was one person involved?


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-02, 04:59 PM (EST)
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6. "Alone and unaided."
In response to message #5
 
   Yes. One person. Alone and unaided in any way.

As to videos/novels, its been thought by some that a video store clerk might have the time, but the note appears to be someone older. I don't think the notewriter was a video store clerk, more likely a student without much of a social life. Hence no one suspects him because no one missed him at Christmas time. Lifelong loner.

Sequence of events: Sure:
He got angry, then he got even.


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Joyce
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Apr-08-02, 08:51 AM (EST)
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8. "What "
In response to message #0
 
  
>I've been concerned about Fleet White, but
>have concluded that he is simply
>a very strange character who got
>caught up in this mess. I
>think that any 'backbone' he might
>have would be found on the
>skeletons in his closet. He may
>be a bit creepy, but that
>does not make him a murderer.

makes him "creepy"? I haven't read all there is regarding him but then I wouldn't have, him being a friend of the Ramsey faimly and all.


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DonBradley
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Apr-08-02, 04:39 PM (EST)
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9. "Nagging doubts."
In response to message #8
 
   >what makes him "creepy"?
Nothing definite. Alot of little nagging doubts.

He stands out as exceptional. That is always of interest in a homicide case: who stands out as 'out of the norm' in his habits or actions on that day? He is the only one of the Ramsey friends/acquaintances who is clearly not supporting the Ramseys (although his statements all seem to relate to post-Christmas activities).

He is a man who lives off a family allowance, but the family business is in Orange County, California and it is therefore unlikely that he takes much of an active role in it. This does not necessarily mean he 'has a trust fund for a backbone' but it does bespeak a certain 'penumbra of exile'.

His statements of 'Boulder is a good place to raise kids but Newport Beach, CA was not' is a statement that is strange, particularly if you work for the Newport Beach Chamber of Commerce, but not so strange if you work for the Boulder Chamber of Commerce. In between those two extremes, you must find your own point of balance.

It appears he has a few 'gaps' in his background, but so what?

He apparently vigorously urged the Ramseys to do the CNN interview and then later has denied that he did this.

He was constantly talking to police and media at first which to some is suspicious.

He had the presence of mind to take notes that morning, but not to notice the lock or the corpse when he opened the door.



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Jarbo9
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Apr-08-02, 05:09 PM (EST)
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10. "theory"
In response to message #9
 
   I believe the theory posted on this thread is about as close
as you are going to come with the available input. Sure, if
we ever find the perp there are going to be some unexpected
variations but in the end he will pretty much fit the bill.

What in the world first triggered his desire to commit this
crime? What was the catalyst? I wonder, at what age,
a person first harbors the thought of killing another human
being? I wonder if he ever gave any indication to others?
We know so little about the human mind. It is so easy
to hide what is going on in that mind of ours. Psychiatrists
and Psychologists have tried. The success has been minimal.


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DonBradley
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Apr-20-02, 05:01 PM (EST)
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11. "available input"
In response to message #10
 
   >as close as you are going to come with the available input.
But for ADA Trip DeMeuth we would not have even what minimal input we do. Had the BPD not bungled this from the initial 911 call, we would have had more.

>but in the end he will pretty much fit the bill.
I'm glad that you think he will, most people view it as a pageant-patronizing pedophile or a pissed-off parent.
>
>I wonder, at what age, a person first harbors the thought
>of killing another human being?
Why, school age ofcourse...don't ever say our education system does not accomplish something!


>We know so little about the human mind.
Life-long law abiding CPA had a brain surgeon's scalpel slip and started stealing cars and driving them to his home, soon taking up all the neighborhood parking places with his stolen cars which he never sold or vandalized in any way.
22 out of 23 writers of fine food and fine wine have a lesion in a particular part of the brain.
Females who share a uterus with a male have more masculine brains and are more likely to be attracted to other women.
Crime is not that different from other behaviors.
And murder is not that different from other crimes. Any cop will always tell you: The first one is the hardest one.

What sort of a guy is he? Intelligent, well educated, highly paid, independent in spirit and actions (if not an entrepreneur, he certainly has some business on the side), generous, more prone to solitary than group interaction.


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Jarbo9
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Apr-21-02, 00:00 AM (EST)
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12. "He enjoyed his evening. A big thrill."
In response to message #11
 
   I don't see any panic or coming unglued in any manner.>>

Nor do I. After he completes his protracted strangulation
he went back upstairs spread the Ransom note across
the steps of the spiral staircase. and walked out the door.

If he commits or has committed another crime, which is
quite likely, we will not be able to connect the two.
He won't be leaving any more ransom notes.


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DonBradley
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Apr-22-02, 06:57 AM (EST)
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13. "Other crimes ??"
In response to message #12
 
   >If he commits or has committed another crime,
>which is quite likely, we will not be able to
>connect the two. He won't be leaving any more ransom notes.

No, he had too much fun toying with the Ramseys with that first note...he enjoys having them forever be under an 'umbrella'.

But I wonder about this "which is likely"...
Do you see The Ramseys as the target or JonBenet as the target or simply a six year old girl as the target?

If 'a six year old girl' was the target, then yes, I would expect other crimes, but if the target was The Ramseys, I would not expect any subsequent crimes at all, certainly not any child murders.



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Jarbo9
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Apr-22-02, 10:02 AM (EST)
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14. "Target of opportunity"
In response to message #13
 
   I am not so certain the Ramseys were any kind of a revenge
target. It is quite possible that they were the "target of
opportunity." I think he lived very close by and observed
their comings and goings. While prowling the home on a previous
occasion he discovered that it was perfect for the crime
he envisioned. After all, how many homes have the
child's room so isolated, with the parents sleeping on the
floor above? How many children's bedrooms
have a direct route to the lower floors without passing a
single occupied room? How many homes have a basement
room where a light can be turned on that can not be seen
by neighbors?

Another example of a "target of opportunity" was John
Kennedy. He came right to the assassin. Oswald didn't
even have to leave his workplace. Just aim and shoot.



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DonBradley
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Apr-23-02, 11:26 AM (EST)
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15. "Opportunity? Lying in Wait?"
In response to message #0
 
   No.
Not a target of opportunity.

The home is not really unique, the layout is insignificant.

Anyone writing such a lengthy note and obtaining business publication reprints did not just do some sort of random act; it was directed at a particular target for sure.


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Jarbo9
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Apr-23-02, 07:00 PM (EST)
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16. "Don Bradley"
In response to message #15
 
   obtaining business publication reprints >>

You lost me on that statement, please explain?


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DonBradley
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Apr-24-02, 06:17 AM (EST)
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17. "article"
In response to message #16
 
   There is an article in a local business publication that featured a photograph of John Ramsey, this article was found in the home with the photograph circled in what appears to be the same ink used to inscribe a design in JonBenet's palm.


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DonBradley
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May-31-02, 02:59 PM (EST)
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18. "Thought I'd share this too."
In response to message #0
 
   > By whom, prey tell.
By someone who thought that it was the right and proper thing to do; that it was not in any way an evil act, although it was obviously considered by society to be an unlawful act. By someone who was coincidentally nearby and felt it would be well worth his efforts to "do the right thing".
>Motive?
Mission Kill.
Recall perhaps my analogy to a sniper who puts a bullet through the picture window of an abortionist's home. Now keeping that analogy in mind, think of a sniper who instead of shooting the abortionist, shoots a six year old daughter instead.
Its simply a mission-kill, not a kidnapping, not a sexual molestation; simply a just and proper revenge exacted by someone who felt then and to this day feels that he 'did the right thing'. Someone who is not at all troubled by the deed and not at all concerned with it. Its a bit like that hypothetical nutcase that I proposed a while ago: the guy who observed JonBenet being allowed to step on a sidewalk crack. Well, that nutcase is still a nutcase, but he is no longer necessarily concerned with sidewalk cracks. However, he doesn't think he did anything wrong. Just illegal.
-------------------------------------
I think I'd like to add to the above 'not wrong, just illegal' theme that I would imagine the perpetrator would have some very interesting views on morality and on justness of laws and law enforcement. I also would think he would be rather more than 'intellectually concerned' with such issues, I would think he actually in involved with such issues in his daily life.



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DonBradley
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Jun-01-02, 07:07 AM (EST)
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19. "Pithy."
In response to message #0
 
   >Sequence of events: Sure:
>He got angry, then he got even.

One might acuse me of being excessively terse in such a post as to reduce this crime that has spawned so many books, movies, TV shows and newspaper columns, but despite the succinctness of the 'he got angry, then he got even' theory and its almost universal applicability to any crime, I see little use in adding to it.

Doesn't the excessive length of the note and the excessive brutality of the murder indicate anger? We all know that cord was more deeply imbedded in her neck than was necessary to do the job. We all know the blow to the head was a massive one, far more massive than would have been needed to get the job done. Doesn't the entry into a home to do this crime indicate the intensity of his desires?


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DonBradley
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Jun-02-02, 11:49 AM (EST)
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20. "Intense, angry."
In response to message #19
 
   Given the intensity and anger ... wouldn't far, far more have been done to her sexually if sex were the motive for this crime?

If she had been 'utilized' more and then simply 'dispensed with' without any complex and time-consuming garotte, I could view this as a sex crime, but I have a hard time looking at the time consuming note writing and the time consuming garotte contriving and then looking at the merely perfunctory sexual activity.


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Joyce
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Jun-04-02, 08:40 AM (EST)
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24. "I do agree with you"
In response to message #20
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-02 AT 08:51 AM (EST)

>Given the intensity and anger ... wouldn't
>far, far more have been done
>to her sexually if sex were
>the motive for this crime?
>If she had been 'utilized' more and
>then simply 'dispensed with' without any
>complex and time-consuming garotte, I could
>view this as a sex crime,
>but I have a hard time
>looking at the time consuming note
>writing and the time consuming garotte
>contriving and then looking at the
>merely perfunctory sexual activity.

so where what would this anger involve??? An ex-employee or someone who KNEW they were qualified and applied at AG yet didn't get the job???

Since I routinely apply for jobs that I am qualified for yet hear nothing back from the whoever, I can see someone getting pissed at that fact. However, if the person were a very egotistical 'high and mighty' self-image, wouldn't they resent it all the more? I've known people like that and wondered if they hadn't ever committed SOME crime SOMEWHERE because of where they were working at NOW (when I did work where they did that is). They had a tiny non-descript job but by their attitude you'd have thought their dad was the king of some country. That kind of attitude. If someone had applied at AG and was THAT kind, I can imagine the 'being pissed' being replaced by a revenge notion, siince again, I've known people like that.

The JBR murder bothered me alot, one reason I think because Boulder isnt that far from here, Albuq, and it seems that when someone flees, they come HERE. I've always seemed to attract the 'odd ones' so I don't like to go out much and being in HERE only made that worse. Course you know I was born paronoid (or so I say - isnt really true but I joke it like that - that developed over a period of time so it's really a wariness caused by experience).

In my opinion, if someone is looking for a crook in AZ, CO, or TX, they need only come here and that crook IS probably here someplace. Probably working at the job I was at before. We had one person there arrested by the FBI for explosivies violations (he made bombs) and we had people who bought and sold pot, bought under the table and everything else. It was the worst place I've ever worked at but I kind of got along with most of them but was glad to get out in one piece.

And I've seen some there who would FIT the profile you described, or so I beleive. They can lie thru their teeth and seem totally sincere if I hadn't JUST seen them 'token'. But that's another story.

So I think it was someone who was one of THOSE kind, (they probably have those kind in CO too but I like to think it's just here; if it's just here than I can go someplace else and NEVER see it again anymore than I saw it in Illinios). Someone who thought themself as a god (I've worked under people like that and I'm NOT exagerating - when the 'fit' was on them, they acted like they thot they were a god), and went and did whatever and went off and forgot about it. And they WOULD kill again, and again and again, and if we only knew it, perhaps that person is in OUR town right now someplace and THAT's what's happening to some people here.

Well, that's my kind of opinion about it. Course the perp may STILL be in Co. I DO like your theory on one account tho - I don't have to suspecision an old friend any more.



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Mikiemoderator
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Jun-02-02, 04:38 PM (EST)
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22. "Agree with a lot"
In response to message #19
 
   I agree with a lot you are saying. However, I disagree that there is only one person involved. Can't you see that the whole idea of justification is held in the McReynolds when they suggest incest or if they suggest that JonBenet was acting immorally with her beauty pageants? Can't you see that Chris Wolf left the article there with John's picture circled? Can't you see that the killer was a professional who kills for pleasure, like Pachaly? Can't you see that Fleet White fiddled with evidence, and Priscilla helped to clean up fingerprints? And can't you see that the BPD has confiscated and covered up everything possible?
Well I know you can't but I just want you to think of it.


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Dave
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Jun-02-02, 04:13 PM (EST)
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21. "Problem with Toth's Theory"
In response to message #0
 
   The biggest problem I see with "Toth's" Theory is that the crime scene and evidence constitute a textbook case of a sexual homicide with an attempt to coverup the true nature of the crime with a ransom note. (That is what this appears to be, not that it necessarily is so.) Under "Toth's" Theory, this would be a crime of revenge or politics, speaking very loosely, covered up with a fake crime of sexual homicide which is then covered up with a secondary fake crime of an aborted kidnapping. Why not simply let the true nature of the crime be completely revealed, if this was done for revenge or if it was done to make a statement? Why cover up the statement? If the statement was covered up to protect the identity of the perpetrator, then what's the point?

It's much more straightforward to accept this, as a working hypothesis, to be a sexually related homicide for which an attempted coverup of an aborted kidnapping was made, the same as is often seen with sexual homicides. That is sexual homicides are often disguised as robberies, etc. This approach is much more likely to lead to the true perpetrator.

Don has repeatedly pointed to minimal signs of sexual activity; this is incorrect. The signs of sexual activity include the ligature strangulation, the bondage, the slight vaginal penetration, etc. This are indeed not common signs of sexual activity, but there is, in fact, a LOT of evidence that this is a sexual homicide. It's a textbook case.


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DonBradley
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Jun-02-02, 06:21 PM (EST)
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23. "Lots of them."
In response to message #21
 
   There are alot of problems with my theory.

yes, I agree that I am focusing on the actual sexual activities rather than such 'sexual substitutes' as strangulation, humiliation, etc.

As to 'why cover-up, rather than proudly reveal' if it is a quasi-political motivation: consider how some Jaguar drivers remove their front license plates because it detracts from the beauty of the vehicle. If someone writes a letter of protest to the newspapers about the practice and then kills JonBenet because John Ramsey's jaguar didn't have a front license plate, any 'announcement' about the crime having been committed by the SBTC (Stop Boulder Tag Concealment) would be a little too identifying. Whenever the 'announced reason' also reveals the identity because the 'group' is too small, there has to be a cover up of the true nature of the crime.


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Joyce
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Jun-04-02, 09:02 AM (EST)
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25. "I still think that"
In response to message #23
 
   >any
>'announcement' about the crime having been
>committed by the SBTC (Stop Boulder
>Tag Concealment) would be a little
>too identifying.

the "TC" part of SBTC stands for "Top Cat" since the refrence to 'cats' was made in the letter.
I have no idea what the "SB" would stand for.

I have also read that it seemed as if certain parts of the letter were written at different times. I wonder why? Or did just certain parts of it 'set him off' so the writing LOOKED as if it had been written at different times???

That's what I'd think right there, and IF so then THAT should tell us what part of the letter mean the MOST to him.

I read the letter yet I do NOT see that which was described. I am not a handwriting anylist either so how WOULD I know? If anyone here knows which parts seem to change in style and grow 'more intense' I suppose one could also know which parts mean 'something' to the perp. He no doubt put some of his OWN self into the letter even tho we now believe that he wrote it almost entirly from movie quotes. The parts that aren't movie quotes then, WOULD be the perp. Sort that out and where the intensity increases, and you have a better look at him.


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