A. I did.

Q. And it was your responsibility and I'm sure you carried it out in terms of reporting because I think
you get the record so far at least as of August of 1998 you had filed more reports than anybody on this
case, did you know that?

A. I believe so.

Q. And every time you met with Fleet White either because he was and he was a suspect himself,
was he not?

A. Again, that ambiguous suspect label, yes.

Q. And either because he was a suspect as that term is used by the Boulder Police Department or
because he was a witness, each and every time you met with him and had discussions with him it was
your duty and responsibility to prepare a report about it, true?

A. Not necessarily.

Q. Why not?

A. Well, initially he wasn't my assignment. I think Linda Ardnt shouldered a lot of that. And then
after she was removed from the case, Detective Jane Harmer --

Q. I'm not asking about Harmer. I'm asking about you, Mr. Thomas. I don't need to know about
Harmer and Arndt. They can answer themselves. I want to know if you made reports on each of your
meetings with Mr. White. That's my question. Maybe you didn't understand that one.

MR. WOOD: Despite that interruption, you may continue with your answer.

THE DEPONENT: Thank you.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Yeah, answer about your contacts with Mr. White and whether you made
reports on each of those or not?

MR. DIAMOND: You asked him why. He was explain' -- answering the why question.

MR. WOOD: I asked him why -- you're right. I asked him why he did not make a report, why he did
not make a report.

MR. DIAMOND: Thank you. And he's about to tell you that if you just let him finish.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) I assume what you're telling me is because of Arndt and Harmer somehow
what they did, that's why you didn't do reports?

MR. DIAMOND: Why don't you listen to the answer, then you won't have to assume.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Why don't you answer my question about why you didn't prepare reports
when you had contacts with Mr. White and then we can move to another question.

MR. DIAMOND: You can now finish your answer, if you haven't completed it.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Maybe now you can answer.

A. Detective Harmer inherited I think the Fleet and Priscilla White assignment, if you will, and was
friends with them, compassionate to them trying to do her job as a police detective. When she
introduced me then at some later date to the Whites, I completed and prepared reports on contacts,
meetings, interviews that I felt were relevant at the time certainly and did so concerning the Whites.
But every time I either spoke or met with these people, no, I did not complete a written report.

Q. Give me your best recollection percentage-wise of how many times percentage-wise you think
you may have prepared reports with meetings with Fleet White or Priscilla White, half the time, 75
percent of the time, 90 percent of the time, what is your best estimate?

A. I don't know how many reports I completed and I don't know how many times I met with them,
but completed several reports I'm sure concerning the Whites and met with them a number of more
times in which I didn't. So half, a quarter, I don't know.

Q. So there may be as many as half to 75 percent or 25 to 50 percent of the times you met with
them where we couldn't find a report and find out what you all discussed or what they said to you?

A. As I said, I don't know. I'm trying to answer your question as far as a percentage goes.

Q. I take it if they gave you any significant information as it would apply to the investigation of
JonBenet's murder you would have prepared a report, true?

A. And I did at times.

Q. So we can at least know that any meeting you had with Priscilla White or Fleet White by phone,
in person or otherwise, if there was any significant information about the case, you would have
prepared a report, true?

A. Most likely, yes.

Q. Why would you not, if they had given you significant information about the case, why would you
not prepare a report?

A. Well, again at the time and standing in those shoes, you know, three, four years ago, if it was
significant at the time and I brought it back to the police department and it was significant, yes,
absolutely I think I would prepare a report.

A. As to the matter of flipping on the light --

Q. Yes, sir.

A. -- yeah, I don't recall that.

Q. Do you have any knowledge as you sit here today to deny it?

A. I would look at my report before I gave you a definitive answer.

Q. Whose idea was it to go down to the basement first after Linda Arndt suggested to Fleet White
that she ought to keep John busy and they could go search the house. And as I recall, Fleet White didn't
really want to go tell John that himself and asked Linda Arndt to suggest it to him. Does that scenario
sound familiar to you and accurate?

A. No.

Q. Not at all?

A. No, sir.

Q. How is it inaccurate?

A. Detective Arndt's description of that was that she gathered Fleet White to occupy a distracted
John Ramsey to keep his mind busy and instructed him to search the house in her words from top to
bottom. Upon which time Arndt's recollection to me was that it was Ramsey who led the two men
downstairs.

Q. What was Fleet White's recollection to you about who made the decision to start down in the
basement?

A. I don't know that -- again, without reviewing my reports and my interview with Fleet, but that's
not today, consistent -- no, Fleet White hasn't indicated to me that he was the leader going downstairs.

Q. Are you telling me if Linda Arndt says, listen, I want you two guys to go over here and I want
you to search this house from top to bottom, you think that was -- is to be interpreted as saying I want
you to start at the top and go to the bottom or does that really say I want you to search this entire
place? What do you think is the more reasonable way to interpret that statement search the house top
to bottom?

A. You would have to ask Linda Arndt --

Q. You said you did?

A. -- but her -- I did and her comment to me was, quote, From top to bottom and the indication I
took away from it was that her instruction was to search the house from top to bottom.

THE DEPONENT: Chuck, can we take a break?

MR. DIAMOND: When you get to a convenient stopping point.

MR. WOOD: If he wants it take a break I'm fine. We will take it right now.

THE DEPONENT: Thank you.

MR. WOOD: Any time you want to do that, Mr. Thomas, don't hesitate to ask.

VIDEO TECHNICIAN: The time is 2:57. We're going off the record.

(Recess taken from 2:57 p.m. to 3:05 p.m.)

A. Mr. White has always been very careful with his language around me, as is his wife and I don't
know that I could sit here and say today that he has come out and made a declaration as to who he
believes killed JonBenet Ramsey. But the tone and inferences of some of these conversations made it
fairly clear to me.

Q. You think you understood from the tone and inferences what he was trying to say but not saying
directly; is that your testimony?

A. I think I believe that I know who Fleet has in mind as the offender in this case.

Q. Why don't you just ask him?

A. I did not, that I recall, ask him outright who he thought did it.

Q. I mean, you've talked to him since you left the Boulder Police Department, haven't you?

A. Yes.

Q. When is the last time you talked with Fleet White?

A. I think I last saw them in probably July or August of 2000 and then again had a pleasant hallway
conversation in Jefferson County, Colorado, outside a courtroom in the last couple months.

Q. What was the nature of your seeing him in July of 2000?

A. A personal visit.

Q. Personal, but tell me, please, if you would, the nature of the visit?

A. I think I had finished a carpentry job up on -- in that part of the world and in the late afternoon or
early evening, drove by their house to say hello and they invited me to stay for dinner.

Q. Drinks?

A. I don't really drink.

Q. Whether you really drink or not -- most people either drink or they don't drink. I don't know about
I don't really drink. That sounds like you might occasionally take a glass of wine or drink, I don't
know. Do you?

A. I won't drink three beers in a year's time.

Q. Did you have a glass of wine with the Whites that night you had dinner?

A. No.

Q. Did they?

A. I don't know whether or not they had alcohol.

Q. How many times do you think you've seen them on a social basis since you left the department in
August of 1998?

A. Two or three maybe.

Q. And one was the dinner in July of 2000. What were the other two occasions?

A. Post resignation in August of '98, maybe a time or two in 1999, I'm not sure.

Q. What were the occasions? You had dinner one time. What were the other social occasions; do
you recall what they were?

A. That was the only time I ever ate with the people.

Q. What were the other social occasions, sir, what did you do with them?

A. Probably just stopped by their house and said hello. I didn't meet them at other locations.

Q. Do you consider Fleet and Priscilla White personal friends of yours?

A. I don't know how I would characterize these people who I have a lot of compassion for.

Q. Do you know what you consider someone -- do you know what it is to consider someone a
personal friend of yours?

A. Yes.

Q. Do they fall in that category or not?

A. It's an unusual characterization. I have never had a relationship with somebody that I met
wearing one hat and continued that in this context. So if you're asking me am I friendly and would I
consider myself friends with these people, yes.

A. Yes, if those transcripts serve memory correctly, yeah, they cast suspicion on the Whites, yes.

Q. Well, then, I mean, please, with all due respect, casting suspicion by saying that you suspect
someone is different than saying that you believe that they killed your daughter, can we not agree on
that, sir?

A. I believe the Ramseys only sat down a couple times with --

Q. I didn't ask you that, sir.

A. -- the government and -- please.

MR. DIAMOND: You may finish.

MR. WOOD: You may but I mean at some point I'm going to have to maybe get the judge to direct
him to answer the question. She certainly would if in fact he were in front of her. I didn't ask him
about how many times the Ramseys sat down with the government. I asked him, please, with all due
respect, casting suspicion by saying you suspect someone is different than saying that you believe --
strike that. Let me go back. Please, with all due respect, casting suspicion by saying that you suspect
someone is different than saying that you believe that that person killed your daughter; can we agree on
that, sir.

MR. DIAMOND: And he was answering that question.

MR. WOOD: Would you answer that question, Mr. Thomas, and if you do not want to answer that
question then I'm going to consider upon recess whether I'm going to adjourn this deposition and get
some guidance today on another occasion to have this witness quit wasting time by being non
responsive to the question. Why don't you counsel him on a break here and let's take two minutes and
let me talk to Mr. Rawls because I'm kind of reaching the end of my rope with you and him.

MR. DIAMOND: We're not -- we're going to stay on the record.

MR. WOOD: Let him answer the question then.

MR. DIAMOND: He may in any way he sees fit. Do you want the question reread?

THE DEPONENT: Yeah, please.

MR. DIAMOND: Madam reporter?

MR. WOOD: Ready. Do you want to read it back to him maybe he'll understand it. He didn't seem to
have this problem with Mr. Hoffman's questions.

MR. DIAMOND: Could be a reflection on Mr. Hoffman.

MR. WOOD: Could be a reflection on woodshedding by the lawyers more appropriately. I don't think
anybody skilled in litigation is going to have any questions about what this witness and his lawyers have
done and told him to do. It's pretty obvious. Thank goodness we have the record both video and
stenographically.

(Page 279, line 23 through page 280, line 2 read.)

A. I think the Ramseys were very careful in how they cast that suspicion and I would have to
review those transcripts as to their verbatim language to refresh myself because as I sit here today,
four years later, I don't recall that.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) You can't answer that question today, is that what you're telling me?

A. I don't recall their language, no.

(next thread- "and hence")

From time to time, I've read in your posts that you knew the killer. Problem is that the killer's identity, in your opinions, changes from time to time. What about the others perp killers you had found?

Hummm... So volatile...

How did you get from Ashleys post that she is claiming to know the killer? I don't get your logic leap here.

She said "Would it surpsrise anyone if this idiot actually befriended the killer? LOL! I'm not saying this is true, but it would be par for the course! LOL"

She is suggesting that he MIGHT be the killer and nothing more. There have been a lot of posts lately making the same suggestion, and in fact, we have just found out from ST's deposition that Fleet White is one of the top three suspects. Do you think ST knows the killer?

A. Yes.

Q. "Chief Mark Beckman declared to the Whites, who had supported another candidate for his new
job, were 'morally empty' and again suggested putting Fleet White in jail." When did that occur?

A. That was late spring, I believe, of '98, certainly in 1998. But I recall this.

Q. Do you recall Mark Beckner ever asking you if you thought that Fleet White could possibly be the
murderer?

A. Mr. Wood, I think maybe even in this same passage.

Q. I think that's where it is, here it is, I'm sorry. "'For what?' I had asked Beckner incredulously.
Beckner later asked me if Fleet could possibly be the murderer." Have I read that correctly?

A. Yes.

Q. That would have been a comment made in 1998 by Chief Beckner?

A. That's correct.

if it sounds complicated, it probably is!
isn't there a code against this?

Bwahahahahaha.....

Did you really mean to go there...Patsy and Susan Smith!!

Lou Smit is a Christian, not a fool. He is not in the business of forgiving and forgetting but of solving crimes and putting the bad guys in jail.

He has a wonderful reputation as an ace detective, has done nothing but put JonBenét first for 6 years now, and if anyone can solve this case, I think he can. Just be patient and let him and the team do what they need.

I noticed that Thomas claimed to have eaten only one meal with the Whites (the dinner), while in his book he admitted to breakfasting with Fleet.

As it is, we now know Thomas and the Whites had a relationship than what wasn't proper and shop around for an inexperienced and politically naive detective to bond with? After establishing an emotional bond (Steve felt a great deal of compassion for them) with Thomas, the Whites proceeded to manipulate him by promoting the idea that the DA was bad, corrupt, unwilling to indict, and preventing the decent, hardworking police from bringing the killer parents to justice. Since there is always different legal standards for the prosecutors (proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt) and for cops (probable guilt to charge), there is likely always some degree of conflict, and Thomas was too inexperienced and naive to realize that.

I believe that this crusade was a red herring, because the Whites were very supportive of Thomas who leaked to journalists, yet condemned Hunter for doing the same. So, talking to journalists could not have been a reason for wanting to remove Hunter. Was the real reason because Hunter placed Fleet among his top suspects?

I believe that their conversations (75 percent of the time) which weren't written up by Thomas, as they should have been, were likely focused on frustrations with the DA and the many reasons why the DA's were preventing justice for JonBenet. The Whites and Thomas have expressed almost identical opinions on the matter.

Thomas appears to have been a very compromised detective--overlooking intruder evidence and bias when reviewing evidence of Fleet's suspicious behavior.

TW, you have Fleet poisoning ST while many would see it the other way around. I believe ST never did understand the role of the DA's office (to advise in legal terms how to bring the case to trial). He interpreted everything they did as standing in the way of slamming that jail cell door on Patsy Ramsey. Reading these depos helps us see how "dense" he really was and how little he needed to theorize and jump to conclusions and how little "checking" into the parts of that theory he did.

I see it as ST poisoning Fleet with regard to DA Hunter (and in the process, the Ramsey-White friendship), not the other way around.

City of Boulder | Boulder Community Network

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

April 16, 1997
Contact: Leslie Aaholm, Media Relations, 441-3090

RAMSEY UPDATE APRIL 16 (#40)

In response to media inquiries and to clarify inaccurate statements, Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby has the following statement:

“Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White, Jr. are not suspects in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation. They are considered key witnesses. The Boulder Police Department appreciates the full cooperation they have received from the Whites since the beginning of their investigation. I feel this response is necessary due to the inaccurate portrayal of Mr. and Mrs. White in certain media publications.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nowhere in that press release does it say they were investigated and cleared. What it says is that at that time the Boulder police were not investigating them as suspects, that they were considered witnesses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This has been discussed many, many times. Steve Thomas' deposition just supports what most of us have been able to figure out. Here is what Thomas said - - and it shows that LATER, the Whites were indeed suspects by some standards.

Remember, the press release was in April of 1997.

Lin Wood - When do you think Steve Ainsworth began to look at him (Chris Wolf)?

A. June of 1997.

.........

Q. Now, you do know that after the Boulder Police Department had investigated Mr. Wolf, that the district attorney's office was still actively investigating an intruder theory and that Fleet White, Bill
McReynolds and Chris Wolf were on the top of their suspect list. You do know that to be true, don't you, sir?

A. Yes.

But one thing I do have in my notes is that Daphne was interviewed by two detectives and a social worker from DSS - this happened late in January, 1997.

No more on that, but it does prove that the cops DID interview people who were around JonBenét on her last day. That's a good thing. Hope they asked the right questions.