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Conferences Deposition discussion Topic #76
Reading Topic #76
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Nov-03-03, 09:53 AM (EST)
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"John in Atlanta 6"
15 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Mr. Ramsey, after
16 December 26, 1996, did you ever go back in
17 the house?
18 A. No.
19 Q. You never were in it after that?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did you ever go back to the
22 house?
23 A. I think I drove by it, but I
24 never went back to the house.
25 Q. You mentioned Dorothy Allison

1 earlier. Is this Dorothy Allison the
2 psychic, she is now dead?
3 A. As far as I know. I heard she
4 is dead.
5 Q. Well, I said that. That wasn't a
6 question. Dorothy Allison is the Dorothy
7 Allison who was a psychic that's made
8 comments about this?
9 A. As far as I know. I never laid
10 eyes on Dorothy Allison, nor heard her. She
11 was on a television program about this case,
12 and we received information as a result of
13 some things she said in terms of leads.
14 Q. Okay. And that was part of that
15 packet you handed in there?
16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 Q. There was a sketch that was made
18 based on a description that she --
19 A. Right.
20 Q. -- created. Are you aware of
21 that, that sketch?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Have you gotten any leads as a
24 result of that sketch?
25 A. We have gotten -- I know the lead

1 level went up dramatically when we put that
2 out there, and I think the reason for
3 putting it out there was to keep things
4 stirred up. One of our objectives certainly
5 has been to keep this active in the public's
6 mind.
7 Q. So after that --
8 A. Yeah, we got a lot of leads after
9 that.
10 Q. When you say you put it out
11 there, what do you mean?
12 A. It was put on our website by the
13 investigators.
14 Q. Okay. And you say after that, it
15 got put on your website, you got a lot
16 of --
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. And is that still on your
19 website?
20 A. I haven't looked, but I don't
21 believe so.
22 Q. Why is that?
23 A. We are trying to keep the website
24 active so people come back. The whole
25 objective here is to keep it stirred up,

1 keep it active.
2 Q. Is the ransom note on the
3 website?
4 A. It was -- well, the ransom note?
5 No, I don't think so. No, not that I know
6 of. I mean, I haven't seen it there.
7 Q. Was that a conscious decision not
8 to put it on?
9 A. I wasn't directly involved with
10 what went on that website from the beginning.
11 I don't know if it was a conscious decision
12 or not.
13 MR. WOOD: I think Ollie would
14 probably know.
15 THE WITNESS: I think it's on the
16 web in other places, I've been told.

Now I have not been one to publicly criticize the Ramseys and their friends in the past but I will here and now. I personally continue to think it is important to keep the discussion going - to keep people talking about this unsolved case. I think the Internet is a great tool to use - and the Ramseys, their family and friends have not continued to do that - and I think that is a shame. Several URLs are no longer active and I wish they were.

I don't work for the Ramseys, never did, and never took direction from them. I have done what I have done because of my own drive and I think it is right to keep this going as long as the posters are willing to keep it alive. So we are here. I will share what I can and will do it in the way I think best.

Yes, the BORG is welcometo take the transcripts to their forums for discussion - I have no problem with that - - just want the truth out - let the chips fall where they may.

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John in Atlanta 6 [View All], jamesonadmin, 09:53 AM, Nov-03-03, (0)  
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Nov-03-03, 10:00 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #0
17 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Have you been
18 involved in any efforts to publicize the
19 ransom note?
20 A. No. Not -- we wanted it released
21 early on based on strong recommendations that
22 that be done, but --
23 Q. But you haven't, yourself,
24 promoted that or anything?
25 A. Uh-uh (indicating negatively).

1 Q. Have you gotten anybody in the
2 last two years who has contacted you saying
3 they recognize the handwriting?
4 A. We have gotten, we have gotten
5 handwriting samples from people that say this
6 looks familiar. The woman that turned her
7 ex-husband in sent us a volume of his
8 handwriting samples.
9 Q. Well, she was dismissed on other
10 grounds, from what I understand?
11 A. Well, yes.
12 Q. Was there anybody else besides her
13 who submitted handwriting?
14 MR. WOOD: I told you about the
15 Fleet White package that I received.
16 MR. KANE: Yes. That is right.
17 Fleet White.
18 MR. LEVIN: If I can interrupt
19 for just a second, that's based on
20 linguistics, though, if I understood you?
21 MR. WOOD: To tell you the truth,
22 I haven't, other than to recognize what it
23 was, I did not try to study it. So I
24 wouldn't -- my impression was initially it
25 was linguistics, but it might be, it might

1 reference handwriting.
2 MR. KANE: Was that a handwritten
3 note or something of Fleet or --
4 MR. WOOD: No. It's about an
5 inch and a half thick report.
6 MR. KANE: Okay. But it's not
7 handwritten, I was talking about handwriting
8 here, was that in here?
9 MR. WOOD: That is what I was
10 telling Bruce. I didn't study it other than
11 to recognize that it was someone sending me
12 an analysis of Fleet White's writings. And
13 whether it is limited to linguistics or
14 whether it goes into the handwriting issue, I
15 wouldn't state on the record without being
16 certain, but I will get that to you all and
17 you will know exactly what it is.
18 Q. (By Mr. Kane) So, I'm sorry, YOU
19 were saying, you said the Allison woman.
20 Anybody else whose handwriting has been
21 submitted based on -- well, by anybody?
22 A. Well, we received a package that
23 was delivered anonymously, which I believe we
24 turned over to police a couple of years ago.
25 I don't know. It's been --

1 Q. I mean, to your recollection, has
2 there been any handwriting you received as a
3 result of the massive publicity about the
4 handwriting, or about the ransom note?
5 A. Is there any? Yeah, yeah.
6 Q. You received that or your
7 investigators have?
8 A. Yeah, as far as I know.
9 Q. Have you had any of that analyzed
10 by any experts?
11 A. I know early on we had Chris
12 Wolf's handwriting looked at. I know we had
13 them look at several.
14 Q. There have been others that have
15 been looked at by your experts?
16 A. As far as I know.
17 Q. Which experts are these now? I
18 am aware of Mr. Ryle and Mr. Cunningham.
19 A. As far as I know, that is who
20 looked at it.
21 Q. And when you say as far as you
22 know, I mean, have you talked to them about
23 their --
24 A. I've never talked to Ryle and
25 Cunningham directly.

1 Q. Have you received information
2 about them, because I am not aware that they
3 looked at any others when I asked them
4 besides Chris Wolf? Have you received
5 information that they have, in fact, looked
6 at those?
7 A. I have not received information.
8 It is my impression that they have, yes.
9 Q. What was that impression based
10 upon?
11 A. The thousands and thousands of
12 information bits that hit me every day from
13 everywhere.
14 I don't know. Ask them.

Seems to me that K&C (Kane and Company) didn't want to get into a lof of details - - didn't the discussion of the Fleet White package end quickly?

I believe someone online put together that Fleet White package. Analyzed his writings and wanted to share it with authorities. I would think they had sent that file to both the Ramseys and LE.

If I am right - why wouldn't K&C have told John that they had gotten the same package and were dealing with it in a proper fashion?

If I am wrong and they didn't know about the package, why didn't they show more interest?

Am I wrong in guessing they simply didn't want to follow anything but BORG leads?

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Nov-03-03, 10:04 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #1
15 Q. (By Mr. Beckner) You mentioned
16 Chris Wolf. Did you know Chris Wolf prior
17 to the death of your daughter?
18 A. No.
19 Q. (By Chief Beckner) Had you ever
20 heard of Chris Wolf?
21 A. No.
22 MR. WOOD: There is some
23 connection between Wolf and the Colorado
24 University. Somebody has indicated that
25 there may have been.

1 MR. WICKMAN: I thought that he
2 had been to a class.
3 MR. KANE: I lost my place here.
4 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You are aware of
5 Jackie Dilson?
6 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
7 Q. Have you ever spoken with Jackie
8 Dilson yourself?
9 A. Not directly, I don't believe.
10 We got a videotaped message from her months
11 ago, and that's the first time I had ever
12 seen her.
13 Q. So you never had an one-on-one
14 conversation with her?
15 A. No. Our investigators had, I
16 know, at some length.

Doesn't sound to me like John was trying to push Wolf as the killer - - and doesn't sound to me like K&C was at all interested in seeing the tape Jackie sent the Ramseys. I think that is strange.

I would point out that this tape was available to Judge Carnes when she was considering the case Darnay Hoffman brought against the Ramseys on behalf of Chris Wolf. If she saw this, she saw Wolf was a suspect, not particularly pressed on LE by the Ramseys at all - just one of a few they wanted investigated with reason.

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Nov-03-03, 10:07 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #2
17 Q. Do you recall, when you left
18 Jalleo, is that how you pronounce it?
19 A. Jalleo.
20 Q. Jalleo. Jim Marino was quoted in
21 the Denver papers about your leaving. Do
22 you remember that at all?
23 A. No, I don't remember the
24 quote.
25 MR. WOOD: Do you have a quote

1 you can put in front of him to look at to
2 refresh him?
3 MR. KANE: I just asked him if
4 he would remember it.
5 MR. WOOD: Why don't you tell him
6 what the quote was. Maybe he will remember.
7 (By Mr. Kane) Well, he said that
8 you had left Jalleo to concentrate on the
9 investigation, that he had spoken to you the
10 week before?
11 A. I left Jalleo because of the
12 tarnished reputation that had been laid upon
13 me was detrimental to the business.
14 Q. Okay. So it didn't have anything
15 to do with spending more time on the
16 investigation?
17 A. No.
18 Q. You also said that you had gotten
19 a lot of, maybe not a lot, but you got
20 experts to volunteer their time on the case.
21 Who are those people? I never heard a name,
22 but that statement.
23 A. Well, it was part of the group
24 that we asked to present to you in January.
25 John Douglas spent time on it. We have a

1 number of psychologists that have offered
2 their help.
3 Q. Do you know who they are?
4 A. Well, one of the letters I have
5 is in the file. We can certainly provide
6 that to you.
7 Q. I will be honest with you, when I
8 got the letter in January, the only person
9 who was mentioned in there was Kris Sperry.
10 A. My impression was that it was a
11 group of people who had looked at it. It
12 was being led by John -- wasn't Wardman. He
13 used to be a -- whether it is a prosecutor
14 in Denver or not, but I met with him a
15 couple of times.
16 Q. Was he the one from Oregon?
17 A. Yes. I cannot remember the name.
18 But he had a medical associate that was
19 involved with it, I know, out of New Mexico,
20 I think.
21 Q. What was that person's
22 involvement?
23 A. He was a, I believe -- I believe
24 he was a --
25 MR. LEVIN: Forensic pathologist?

1 That is Sperry. Out of New Mexico?
2 THE WITNESS: There is another
3 guy.
4 MR. RAMSEY: There are several --
5 MR. LEVIN: Sperry worked in New
6 Mexico on an Indian reservation to pay off
7 his student loans many years ago.
8 THE WITNESS: No. This is a guy
9 who I believe currently lives in New Mexico.
10 It's not Sperry. I can get you their names.
11 I just don't remember off the top of my
12 head. This was a year ago.

John was never deeply involved in the investigation. I don't know why and any guess would be ... just a guess. Right or wrong, he trusted others to do that.

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Nov-03-03, 10:10 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #3
13 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Why did you write
14 the book?
15 A. Needed the money. First of all,
16 we wanted to tell our story. We had been
17 lied about in the press for three years. We
18 wanted to address every one of the media
19 myths that were out there. We wanted one
20 place that the truth was encapsulated. And
21 we wanted to find the killer of our
22 daughter.
23 Q. So by publicizing information, you
24 thought it would generate --
25 A. Yeah.

1 Q. Okay. Why did you decline to put
2 in anything about your own investigation?
3 A. One of the problems we had with
4 the book is it got way too big. I know
5 that. And we had to cut a lot.
6 Q. Why did you decide to cut that?
7 A. I don't know that we cut that at
8 all. I don't remember if it was in there
9 to start with.
10 Q. Well, you made a statement about
11 it.
12 MR. WOOD: What page?
13 THE WITNESS: What's the point?
14 MR. KANE: On page, it's 373.
15 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You say to avoid an
16 accusation of grand standing from the media,
17 not much will be said outside of a close
18 circle about our own efforts to find the
19 killer.
20 A. And not much has been said about
21 it.
22 MR. WOOD: Doesn't that answer
23 your question then?
24 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Well, was that, I
25 mean, was that the reason --

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. -- because you didn't want to be
3 accused of grand standing?
4 A. We have been in a position, and
5 we have been for the past three and a half
6 years, where we are damned if we do, damned
7 if we don't. And that was our position.

I was around when the book was written. The Ramseys wrote a lot - and the editors did their thing and a lot was cut there. Then the lawyers took out what they thought needed to be removed - - I am not just talking about Ramsey lawyers dealing with the investigation, protecting the investigation, but also lawyers working for the publishers who had different criteria when they were editing. They certainly were concerned about lawsuits.

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Nov-03-03, 10:15 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #4
8 Q. Do you still consider Priscilla
9 White to be a suspect?
10 A. I never considered either of the
11 Whites to be a suspect. Their behavior
12 post-December '96 was very, very strange.
13 And that -- we were frightened of it, pure
14 and simple.
15 MR. WOOD: Did they ever --
16 THE WITNESS: But I -- you know,
17 we were at their home that evening, they
18 were in good spirits, they had relatives
19 there, I had no reason to consider them
20 suspects.
21 MR. WOOD: All of their letters,
22 you made mention of this, and it now has
23 struck that cord with me on handwriting, it
24 seems that all of Fleet's and Priscilla's
25 joint letters have been typed. Do you all

1 have handwriting on Fleet White?
2 MR. KANE: I am sure we do. I
3 know we do.
4 (By Mr. Kane) Maybe the word
5 suspect then needs to be defined. Do you
6 today think there is a possibility that
7 Priscilla White killed your daughter?
8 A. We have not eliminated anyone in
9 our minds. We have become suspicious of
10 everyone. And that's how I feel.
11 Q. Is there anything, other than what
12 you described on several occasions about what
13 happened down in Atlanta around the time of
14 the funeral, is there anything other than
15 that that would suggest --
16 A. Yeah. God, he is in the paper
17 every few months with some 20 page letter.
18 I just think that -- I don't understand it.
19 I can't explain it. I don't know if he --
20 I mean, it was a traumatic event. They were
21 there. I don't know. But our feeling was
22 that their behavior was frightening.
23 MR. WOOD: You all are aware that
24 there is a problem exists between the libel
25 charges and all of the background behind

1 that?
2 MR. KANE: Yes.
3 MR. WOOD: So all of that, for
4 whatever reason, is bizarre.
5 THE WITNESS: But it makes no
6 sense.
7 MR. WOOD: Or for whatever
8 reason. I am not suggesting bizarre to any
9 individual, but the whole thing is bizarre.
10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, I
11 don't know for a fact it has been answered,
12 so if the question sounds kind of naive,
13 bear with me. Neither Priscilla nor Fleet,
14 since '98, have made any attempts to contact
15 you, reconcile, restore your friendship, have
16 they?
17 A. Well, they -- we were staying at
18 the Stein's, and they apparently, I learned
19 later, approached Susan, asked to meet with
20 us. And she refused. I wasn't aware of
21 that at the time. There would have been no
22 reason to do that. But maybe that added
23 fuel to the fire. I don't know. From
24 their perspective.
25 But I had written Fleet. I had

1 a sail off of a sailboard that belonged to
2 him that got packed inadvertently. And I
3 sent it back to him with a note, don't
4 believe what you've read in the media.
5 He burst in on me one day when I
6 was meeting with our minister, and I talked
7 to him then. But other than that --
8 Q. But nothing in '99 or since June
9 of '98 --
10 A. No.
11 Q. -- no attempts or no letters from
12 them to renew --
13 A. No.
14 Q. -- your friendship?
15 A. No.

Oh - I have told you all so many times that the Ramseys did NOT accuse the Whites. I am glad this is public so you can see for yourself what happened.

The Ramseys have sometimes trusted people to take charge when they were unavailable (emotionally or physically) and I think sometimes mistakes were made that the Ramseys should have cleared up but didn't.

Egos and hurt egos did play a large part in this saga. More than anyone will ever know.

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Nov-03-03, 10:20 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #5
16 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Have you been
17 critical of the Boulder police for not
18 interviewing everyone who was around the
19 neighborhood?
20 A. I have been told that that wasn't
21 done at the beginning, and I had been
22 critical of that, yes.
23 Q. The people who were not
24 interviewed, have your investigators
25 interviewed them?

1 MR. WOOD: Hold on one second.
2 I think you are comparing apples and oranges,
3 slightly. If I understood your question, you
4 are asking, was he critical of the fact they
5 weren't interviewed.
6 MR. KANE: Yeah.
7 MR. WOOD: And I think his answer
8 was, yes, that they weren't interviewed early
9 on. And obviously the opportunity for his
10 investigators to interview them early on, you
11 know, is lost.
12 THE WITNESS: My understanding is
13 the information we sent to Chief Beckner was
14 a list of people that we were aware of that
15 hadn't been talked to, and I believe the
16 Chief said he had, that that had been done.
17 So --
18 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Have any of your
19 investigators interviewed any of those people
20 themselves?
21 A. I know they have interviewed a
22 number of people. I don't know if they have
23 interviewed all of them. I mean, ask our
24 investigator.
25 Q. Mr. Ramsey, to follow up on the

1 neighborhood, it was brought to my
2 attention --
3 THE WITNESS: Do we want an
4 answer to that question or not?
5 MR. WOOD: If you all make your
6 list, add that to the list when all is said
7 and done, and I will consider it and get you
8 an answer if it is appropriate. It probably
9 will be.

Someone PLEASE tell me what this has to do with finding the killer of JonBenét Ramsey. Surely I am not the only one waiting for some evidence discussion, some sharing of tip files, something that could help find SickPuppy!

Instead K&C want to know how much money is in the foundation and they want to know if the Ramseys really did complain about the sorry work done in the neighborhood when it came to interviewing all neighbors and possible witnesses.

Kane leaves the interview soon - I will post through that and get back to it tomorrow.

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Nov-03-03, 10:28 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: John in Atlanta 6"
In response to message #6
10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) It was brought to
11 my attention fairly recently that a woman I
12 believe named Jean Fortier, F-o-r-t-i-e-r, for
13 the reporter, who are the parents of some
14 children who were over your house on
15 Christmas, and they, they, she, excuse me,
16 said that her children reported to her at
17 Christmas day when they went over to play,
18 they played with Burke but that JonBenet did
19 not play because she was sick. I hadn't
20 heard that before. Is that nonsense?
21 A. Absolutely. I don't know who
22 that is, but we had a whole parcel of kids
23 there all day.
24 MR. KANE: I have to bolt.
25 MR. LEVIN: Do you have anything

1 left?
2 MR. KANE: No.
3 MR. LEVIN: Mike's got to catch a
4 plane.
5 (WHEREUPON, Mr. Kane left the
6 interview.)

This is 2000 and they had JUST heard about the Fortier children going to the Ramsey house Christmas day? Good Grief!

For the record, I believe they heard about that incident by Frank Coffman. And for the record, it did prove to be false.

There were kids in and out that day - I believe the Fortier kids were there and that Burke also went to their house for a short time. But no one was sick and unable to play - that is a BORG myth (the theory being she had been sexually assaulted and recovering - garbage.)

I am off for the day - not only limiting my time on the forum but honestly hope putting this out a bit at a time will get people to really read the parts I post - - not lose details as happens when a large document is put out.

As for me posting the entire thing - I am not comfortable with that right now as there are names in there that have never been made public. If Lin wants to share the file with anyone else, that is his choice. I won't.

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Nov-04-03, 01:34 AM (EST)
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8. "Kane's exit....."
In response to message #7
   "MR. KANE: I have to bolt."

No goodbye....thank you for meeting with us......ciao....see ya around.....but....I have to bolt! Nice guy.

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13618 posts
Nov-04-03, 07:42 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Kane's exit....."
In response to message #8
   Huge case - one of the most important of his life, I would imagine - and he got a chance to interview the Ramseys for as long as he wanted - and he didn't even finish two days.

I think 7 posters here, brainstorming, could have asked better questions for twice as long - - and no one would have been at all interested in "bolting".

(Notice - he caught a plane - he planned to leave then - no emergency - - he simply had something better to do.)

I would also point out that the mention early on of reciprocating later, talking more and sharing... that was certainly not part of Mr. Kane's plans.

I really don't think Kane wanted all the answers - - just BORG affirmations - and he didn't get those.

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