154
1 A. Like a peacoat.
2 MR. WOOD: Well, the picture is
3 the picture, isn't it?
4 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Right, like a
5 peacoat. I just want to make sure we are
6 talking about the same thing. Do you
7 remember that jacket?
8 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
9 Q. I would like you to give us a
10 little background on that coat, and again I
11 am not going to hold you to days of the
12 week, but do you recall, first of all, where
13 you purchased it?
14 A. Well, Priscilla had had one like
15 it that I admired. And she told me, I
16 believe she told me she got hers at EMS.
17 So I went there to look. And they didn't
18 have one or I didn't want to get one exactly
19 like hers. So I think I got that one at
20 Marshals in Boulder.
21 Q. Do you recall what year you
22 purchased it?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Let's -- I can understand that.
25 Now I am going to -- we will take a time

155
1 frame. Was it a fairly, by your
2 recollection, was it a fairly recent purchase
3 that you had or was this a coat you'd had
4 for some period of time prior -- and, of
5 course, I am using it as the date of
6 JonBenet's murder.
7 A. Well, I can't remember. I am
8 sure I bought it in -- as it was getting
9 colder. So it was either probably fall of
10 '96 or '95.
11 Q. That, the coat that you wore the
12 night to the Whites, was it something that
13 was -- I mean, the primary color is red.
14 MR. WOOD: Well, don't fight over
15 -- excuse me, Patsy. Don't you have a
16 picture?
17 MR. LEVIN: I don't have a
18 picture with me.
19 MR. WOOD: Why characterize it.
20 It is what it is.
21 THE WITNESS: There is a picture.
22 MR. WOOD: It is in the picture.
23 Let's look at that.
24 MR. LEVIN: Just to expedite
25 things, because I am not fighting over the

156
1 color, what I want to know is --
2 MR. WOOD: I think she said it
3 was red and black and gray.
4 THE WITNESS: A red and black and
5 gray check.
6 Q. (By Mr. Levin) What I am, what
7 I am interested in is, I am certainly not
8 going to debate concentration of colors. It
9 is irrelevant. What I am interested in, is
10 it something that you wore exclusively during
11 the Christmas season or is this a coat that
12 you wore anytime it was appropriate for the
13 weather?
14 A. Anytime it was appropriate.
15 Q. So it is not like a special
16 Christmassy type, type of Christmas sweater,
17 I know you talked about Christmas?
18 A. (Witness shook head negatively).
19 MR. WOOD: Your answer is not,
20 because you are nodding your head.
21 THE WITNESS: No, it is not.
22 MR. WOOD: So the record is
23 clear.
24 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) We were
25 provided that coat by, I believe, Ellis

157
1 Armistead.
2 MR. TRUJILLO: Correct.
3 Q. (By Mr. Levin) What I would like
4 you to help us with is to understand how the
5 coat got from you to Ellis, if you know.
6 A. The -- I think you all requested
7 it.
8 Q. That is correct.
9 A. So I went to my closet, dug it
10 out, put it in a box, and sent it to Ellis.
11 Q. Was that coat something that was
12 taken -- you didn't wear that coat out of
13 the house when the police took you out of
14 the house the afternoon of the 26th. Do you
15 recall?
16 A. No, I don't think I did.
17 Q. Do you know how you came into
18 possession? Was that something that came
19 through Pam when she picked up some clothes
20 for you or was that something that was boxed
21 up and shipped when the house was packed?
22 MR. WOOD: Just so I am clear,
23 when was the request made?
24 MR. TRUJILLO: It was received
25 January of '98. So it was --

158
1 MR. WOOD: Are we talking about
2 sometime between December of '96, and then
3 you all asked for it when, a year later?
4 MR. TRUJILLO: I don't have the
5 exact date.
6 THE WITNESS: It was a long time
7 later. We were in the house in Atlanta when
8 the request was made.
9 CHIEF BECKNER: December of '97.
10 MR. WOOD: So a year later you
11 all asked for the clothes, and they produced
12 it in January of '98?
13 MR. TRUJILLO: Yes.
14 MR. WOOD: Okay. Does that help
15 just put it in the time context of when it
16 might have been?
17 MR. LEVIN: And because everyone
18 needs a computer whiz, we have Mr. Kane.
19 We're talking about that coat.
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
21 CHIEF BECKNER: Is that a, just
22 for clarification, is that a coat or a
23 sweater?
24 THE WITNESS: It is kind of a
25 little jacket, coat.

159
1 CHIEF BECKNER: We called it a
2 sweater in the past.
3 THE WITNESS: It is a jacket.
4 CHIEF BECKNER: Ellis Armistead
5 called it a sweater in his letter to us.
6 So I just want to clarify we are talking
7 about the right piece of clothing.
8 THE WITNESS: Well, we are
9 talking about that. You can call it
10 whatever you want. It is kind of a jacket
11 more.
12 MR. WOOD: I'd go with jacket.
13 THE WITNESS: I mean, I, you
14 know, it is something you put on to go
15 outside in the cold.
16 MR. WOOD: All right. Now, I
17 had to interrupted you to try to figure out
18 if we can put it into context of time.
19 Your question was?
20 THE WITNESS: You want to know
21 did it come to --
22 MR. WOOD: Let's let him figure
23 out what it was. Hold on a second. He
24 asked, was that something that came through
25 Pam when she picked up some clothes, which I

160
1 am taking to be back early right after
2 the --
3 MR. LEVIN: I'm talking about,
4 yes.
5 MR. WOOD: Pam picked up some
6 clothes right after.
7 MR. LEVIN: Saturday the 28th of
8 December, 199 -
9 MR. WOOD: Right. Was that
10 something that was boxed up and shipped when
11 the house was packed? Does that help you?
12 Do you know the answer?
13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 MR. WOOD: If so, tell him.
15 Q. (By Mr. Levin) When the request
16 came to you, though, from, either I suppose
17 your lawyers, about turning that jacket over,
18 it was, if I understand you correctly,
19 hanging in your closet?
20 A. Uh-huh (affirmative), in Atlanta,
21 yes.
22 Q. And that would be, the request is
23 made approximately a year after your daughter
24 is murdered. Is it something that was just
25 hanging in your closet or something that you

161
1 continued to wear if you recall during the
2 one-year period or any portion thereof?
3 A. I don't remember.
4 Q. I will take -- tell me if this
5 is correct. I am taking that as saying you
6 may have worn it, but some point in time
7 between the murder of JonBenet and when you
8 turned it over, you may not have; you have
9 no independent recollection?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Did you, if you recall, did you
12 clean it at any time -- I believe it is
13 wool, primarily wool -- dry-clean it from
14 when you -- which may sound like a silly
15 question, but I will put it in a larger
16 context. The clothing that came boxed, did
17 you -- those items that you kept, continued
18 to use or at least have available, did you
19 clean them all before you put them away,
20 take them all to the cleaners?
21 MR. WOOD: I am going to ask you
22 to go back and redo that one because that
23 one kind of went in about three different
24 directions, Bruce.
25 MR. LEVIN: Okay.

162
1 MR. WOOD: You started off asking
2 about whether she had this jacket cleaned and
3 then you started talking about clothes that
4 were boxed up. And I don't know if she
5 knows whether this one was boxed up or not.
6 MR. LEVIN: Right. And I
7 understand that.
8 Q. (By Mr. Levin) So what I am
9 trying to do is just to, because I
10 understand you can't identify a particular,
11 whether it was this particular item.
12 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
13 Q. Let's start with the clothes that
14 were boxed up. The clothes that were boxed
15 up that you then reintegrated into your
16 wardrobe, did you clean all of those before
17 you did that?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you have any recollection as
20 to this particular coat, whether or not you
21 ever cleaned it before giving it to Mr.
22 Armistead?
23 A. No.
24 Q. It is a coat that you would
25 dry-clean, though?

163
1 A. I am not so sure about that. I
2 think, I think it is able to be thrown in
3 the washing machine.
4 MR. KANE: I believe it was made
5 of acrylic, if that helps.
6 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
7 MR. WOOD: You all gotta decide,
8 he says wool, you say acrylic.
9 MR. LEVIN: It was acrylic.
10 MR. WOOD: It ought to say
11 dry-cleaning only on it, if it is, or if it
12 doesn't, sometimes it'll get washed. Do you
13 know for a fact, that is the key, do you
14 know whether you dry cleaned it or washed it
15 as you sit here today, Patsy?
16 THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
17 MR. MORRISSEY: Do you know if
18 Mr. Armistead did before he sent it to us?
19 THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
20 Q. (By Mr. Levin) I will take that
21 as a statement that, once you turned the
22 coat over or may have boxed it up and
23 shipped it to Mr. Armistead, that your
24 personal knowledge of what happens to it is
25 none?

164
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. It is not something that you and
3 he ever discussed during the course of maybe
4 a briefing or something like that?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Was it a jacket that you wore
7 around the house? I know this is an indoor
8 picture. Did you do that commonly?
9 A. Sometimes, if it was particularly
10 chilly.
11 Q. Do you recall whether or not you
12 wore that on either the 23rd of December
13 1996, the 24th, or the 20-- well, we know
14 you wore it on the 25th. The 23rd or the
15 24th?
16 A. I don't remember.
17 Q. Was it something that you would
18 frequently wear inside the house?
19 A. Sometimes I would, but what is
20 frequently? You know, I don't --
21 Q. Frequently would be three or four
22 times -- I mean, was it, if you are chilly,
23 was this the item that you always threw on?
24 That is what I am getting at.
25 A. Not necessarily, no.

165
1 Q. You talked about, in your '98
2 interview, that you, on the 24th, that you
3 were in the basement and you were wrapping
4 presents. Do you know, when you were doing
5 that, whether or not you had on that coat?
6 A. I don't know.
7 Q. You have told us that you painted
8 as a hobby. Would you wear this coat to
9 paint?
10 A. No.
11 MR. LEVIN: Mitch?
12 MR. MORRISSEY: Nothing about the
13 coat.

Patsy had had the jacket for some time - she wore it in and out of the house, though not when she was actually painting.

I have no problem understanding how some fibers from her coat could end up in her paint tote. Fibers drop off clothes and can be found anywhere.

I am far more interested in the unmatched fibers found at the scene.

Again, this took a LONG time - this line of questioning. Surely the cops knew when they asked for the jacket, how they got it. I understand this is leading up to something, but when I think of what they could have accomplished if they brainstormed instead of tried to corner - - it is so sad.

Intriguing.

Rainsong

She has the patience of Job. I would have errupted after about the 3-4th hour of this BS!

It's so obvious that this is an interrogation NOT an interview and that their primary motive was to get dirt on the Ramseys. How frustrating. There is NO WAY that their cooperation could have sped up this process any more. They got ALL the answers they needed to put certain issues to bed, but instead of doing so they just kept pounding away until they got the answers they wanted.

What about the questions we REALLY want to know the answers to?

Also, after the lonnnnggggg discussion on whether to call it a sweater or a jacket, and Wood decides on jacket (which is how Patsy referred to it), then Levin, shortly thereafter, proceeds to call it a coat. What a joke!

I guess they were going somewhere with this line of questioning, not sure where, though.

176
1 kept in the butler's pantry was transferred
2 to the basement by Ms. Hoffman Pugh. Do you
3 remember that?
4 MR. WOOD: Why don't you give her
5 the statement so she can look at that. You
6 now are directly asking her to reaffirm
7 something she's already apparently said.
8 MR. LEVIN: I didn't think it was
9 a matter of discussion. Let me ask a second
10 question.
11 MR. WOOD: I don't know whether
12 it is or not, Bruce, but I mean, it is not,
13 apparently by the nature of your question,
14 something new. You already have gotten the
15 information from a question, so --
16 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Let me just, let
17 me just ask another question. We will just
18 drop that one.
19 At the time of JonBenet's death,
20 your painting supplies were found in the
21 basement. Did you ever paint in the
22 basement?
23 A. No.
24 Q. When you were helping JonBenet get
25 ready for bed, were you still wearing the

177
1 red coat -- excuse me, the red, black, and
2 gray coat?
3 MR. WOOD: Well, from what I saw,
4 it looked like the red and black jacket.
5 THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
6 MR. WOOD: The one we have been
7 discussing that Mr. Kane had a picture of.
8 THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
9 MR. WOOD: Did you get your
10 answer?
11 MR. LEVIN: Yes, I did.
12 Q. (By Mr. Levin) I believe you
13 said you don't remember.
14 Was that the outer coat that you
15 were wearing Christmas, or did you have a
16 heavier coat that you wore on top of that?
17 MR. WOOD: For outdoors?
18 MR. LEVIN: For outdoors.
19 THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
20 I think, I think that was the only one I
21 wore. Because we were in the car and out,
22 but I don't remember exactly.
23 MR. MORRISSEY: Mrs. Ramsey, I am
24 sorry to interrupt you. Before you get
25 going too far, when was the last time you

178
1 remember using the paint set?
2 THE WITNESS: Oh, god. Oh, you
3 know, probably that fall sometime, I --
4 MR. WOOD: Do you remember that,
5 Patsy? Be sure of your answer.
6 THE WITNESS: No, I don't
7 remember the last time I used it.
8 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Right. I am
9 not asking for a date.
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. A season.
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. And you indicate the fall? I
14 don't want to put words in your mouth.
15 A. Well, the last time I used it was
16 in conjunction with this art class that I
17 signed up to, and I can't remember when that
18 was exactly from CU. And all of my stuff
19 was there in the butler's pantry. But then
20 the holidays came, we needed that space, and
21 we moved all of the junk to the basement.
22 Q. Once it was moved to the
23 basement, you never hauled it up and painted
24 or anything? You never used it again?
25 A. No.

Seems to me K&C was trying to find some way to say fibers from the jacket could not have been in the paint tote - - seems to me they failed.

Acrylic has a lot of the same characteristics as wool. It holds the heat close to the body, resists moisture, and is breathable but is an easier care fabric and less expensive. An outdoorsy kind of person who spends time in cold weather areas knows that wool and acrylic are the best fibers for clothing to wear.

Maybe Boulder LE should check with the local dry cleaners.

I thought she had a red sweater just like the one found in JB's room. In fact there was an issue made of the idea that Patsy was angry with JB because she didn't want to wear the matching red sweater to the party.