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jamesonadmin
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May-18-03, 09:32 PM (EST)
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"Thomas depo 45 - MindHunter"
 
   Q. There has been a lot of debate about whether or not John Ramsey or Patsy Ramsey or some of
the Ramsey family before the murder of JonBenet owned the book Mind Hunter by John Douglas.
Have you ever seen a photograph of that from a crime scene photo in their house?

A. No, but Tom Wickman swears up and down it was in the parents' bedroom.

Q. Does anyone else, besides Tom Wickman, swear that up and down?

A. No, but Tom Wickman has told that to several people.

Q. Where in the bedroom?

A. I was always under the impression as we recollect it now on one of the two night stands.

Q. By John's bed or by Patsy's?

A. I'm sorry, it's one or the other, I thought. Maybe I -- no, maybe I referenced it in the book,
maybe I didn't. All I can tell you right now is on one of the night stands.

Q. Did you keep a -- but Wickman is the only person that says that, right?

A. As far as crime scene people that were in the house.

Q. Or anybody.

A. Yeah, Wickman is the source of Mind Hunter by Douglas.

Q. Anyone else, besides Wickman, is all I'm trying to find out?

A. Not that I'm aware of.


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Thomas depo 45 - MindHunter [View All], jamesonadmin, 09:32 PM, May-18-03, (0)  
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jamesonadmin
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May-26-03, 11:07 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Thomas depo 45 - MindHunter"
In response to message #0
 
   Now we all know that the police took videos of the house before they searched it - and lots of photos as they searched.... no photo shows that book in the house.

Thomas says Wickman "swears up and down" that the book was in the house. I don't know if that is true - and I think if it is true it would indicate a softness of the brain on Wickman's part - - his delusion could easily be exposed by the photos.

Whatever - that isn't the point of this post.

I was just wondering - -

was Steve Thomas the source of Peter Boyles' rants? and Craig Silverman's? They both went wild over that bit of misinformation.

Steve Thomas said he spoke to Carol McKinley, Larry Schiller and Jeff Shapiro - - - no one else. If that is true - - who was talking to Boyles and Silverman? (My guess would be Carol but....)

Comments?


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BraveHeart
unregistered user
May-27-03, 02:13 AM (EST)
 
2. "RE: photos"
In response to message #1
 
   Are there photos of the night stands? The parent's bed room? If there are we ought to be able to see if the book existed in them. I don't think I've ever seen any of these photos posted if they do exist.

I guess I can't see this, even if true, as being incriminating. If the book was there, and the Ramseys had read it, why would they use it as a "go by" to stage a murder scene? I mean, 'let's see here...in chapter 15 it tells how a staged crime scene looks so let's copy what they did so the detectives will know right away that we are guilty'...'Good plan, John".....

Fortunately, my theory involves a strong element of framing and the leaving of "props" which would account for someone leaving a copy of this book there. I can see a perp leaving it as a clue for the FBI...to help them get on the right trail...."why we hurt the ones we love.." it would answer so many questions: why the body was left in the house but hidden, why wrapped, why Christmas stress, why the gown placed close by, why, why, why...Why would the parents be so helpful in pointing out these answers?

I know what the perp was up to and this fits right in. I wouldn't be surprised if it is true.

But if it is true...what happened to the book? Where is it now? If Wickman saw it, it would still have been in the house after everyone left that afternoon.



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DonBradley
unregistered user
May-27-03, 09:23 AM (EST)
 
3. "Mind?"
In response to message #2
 
   I can not understand ANY of this MindHunter stuff.

First, we have to remember that it is NOT some sort of 'how-to' manual written by a former FBI profiler.

Second, we have to remember that it is NOT particularly incriminating or suspicious.

Now if something were to be 'planted'... well, a stun gun, a knife, a gun, a magazine with a few photos in it, perhpas a magazine of a few photos of underage girls. Very underage girls. You know what I mean! Now planting some of this stuff might mean something. But planting a copy of Mind Hunter?

Now with all the people who were in the house and all the visual evidence that exists and can be blown up and examined... I think we have to admit that this Mind Hunter is an obsessional delusion of Wickman. We can only guess as to his reasons for having the belief and clinging to it. Perhaps those reasons relate to the fact that this obsession made it to the press. He wanted it to get there! That may indicate why he has the delusion in the first place.


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jamesonadmin
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May-27-03, 09:51 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Mind?"
In response to message #3
 
   The crime scene photos do not support Wickman's claim that the book was in the house.

The book was certainly NOT a blueprint to this murder. The investigators were trying to link the Ramsey case to the case of a girl named Shari-Faye. She was kidnapped from outside her house, held for a considerable amount of time before she was murdered - - she was offered a choice of how she would die. Her family was taunted by the killer - - her sister was advised that God wanted her to be with Shari-Faye.

The BORG theory was that Patsy was reading the book that night and read that - - God wants you to join Shari-Faye - - - and decided that was some sign that God wanted her to kill JonBenét. (Yeah, right)

No lie - - that's the theory put forth on TV by Craig Silverman.

Really incredible logic - - BORG logic - totally out of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".


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Maikai
unregistered user
May-29-03, 00:01 AM (EST)
 
5. "If Wickman was observant enough"
In response to message #4
 
   to recognize the book, and he was astute enough to make a big deal about it later, why the h#ll wasn't the book taken in as evidence at the time Wickman supposedly saw it?


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tipper
unregistered user
May-29-03, 00:12 AM (EST)
 
6. "RE: If Wickman was observant enough"
In response to message #5
 
   If the book was there it should have caught the eye of every LE and forensic person who walked through that room. It is after all, their chosen profession. I've wondered if he might have seen an ad (was it available through BOMC?)which eventually morphed into the book itself in his memory.


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DonBradley
unregistered user
May-29-03, 07:41 AM (EST)
 
7. "RE: If Wickman was observant enough"
In response to message #6
 
   Let us consider a book on "cooking" or a particular type of cooking such as "vegetarian cooking". If such a book is noticed, it is not considered evidence by anyone, but it would be recalled by anyone there who happened to be a cook or happened to be a vegetarian.

Now I don't know if MindHunter would have been viewed as "evidence" at the time or not; but I do know that more than ONE of the people present there would have noticed it, simply because its in their field whether they are vegetarians or not and whether they are cooks or not. A blurb on the cover about 'former fbi profiler' would catch their attention. They might not consider it 'evidence' but they would ALL remember it.



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jamesonadmin
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May-29-03, 01:33 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: If Wickman was observant enough"
In response to message #7
 
   Wickman, if what ST says is true, was either mistaken or lying. The book simply was not there.

The photos taken of the house - the video tape - - they don't lie.


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CarolynSue
unregistered user
May-29-03, 03:40 PM (EST)
 
9. "Was this supposed sighting mentioned"
In response to message #8
 
   before or after John Douglas actually met and talked with the Ramseys? I mean, when did Wickman (spelling?) bring this topic up? (I wonder if he had it in his own home and got confused or something). And it is interesting to note that the writer of Mindhunter - John Douglas - did in fact meet the Ramseys and did not conclude that they had any guilt in the murder.


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jamesonadmin
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May-29-03, 05:08 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Was this supposed sighting mentioned"
In response to message #9
 
   John Douglas was brought in very soon after the murder by the Ramseys.

Wickman's info came later. I remember we were all listening to Peter Boyles at the time and he said he had this big news - - had to verify - would report "tomorrow". The next day he put it off again - - and then he let it go over the weekend. During that time, I found out from a source (someone I didn't know until months after the murder) that his big news was the book had been found in the house and some felt that there was a connection to the Shari Faye chapter. I outed his "scoop" and said it was a false story with an assinine theory attached. The BORG was sure I was wrong - - but when Boyles came out with that story.... the BORG was furious - - they agreed it was assinine and were disappointed that their leader actually went with that story.

This is another example of misinformation that seems to have started in the BPD - - went public, misleading.... and was never retractedor corrected. I think that was wrong - - - the media should have been more responsible, the authorities more caring.


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