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jamesonadmin
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Nov-04-02, 10:58 AM (EST)
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"The content of the note"
 
   The note is one of the best clues we have - - and people don't seem interested in studying the content. Why? Because, as Lou has pointed out, it wasn't the kind of note a parent writes after killing a child they had nurtured for 6 years. It was a cold heart that wrote that note.

This person was interested in crimes where the cops look and look for the bad guy, where they match wits.

But our guy is very, very quiet. Why?

Is he dead? Locked up? Insane? Afraid of approaching the cops because he thinks he would be tracked?

Hey, SickPuppy - - I don't think Boulder is paying any mind to you. Like the DC Snipers, I think you could call and tell them who you are and they would put you on hold or transfer the call.

But some of us are interested in what you have to say. If you can, why not get a hotmail account and post on some forum - - go to one on planting pansies if it makes you feel safer. Ask them to forward the post to a Ramsey group.

Or snail mail something to someone. We all want to hear from you. You are not forgotten. We want to know why you did so many things.


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Mikiemoderator
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Nov-04-02, 01:34 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: The content of the note"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-02 AT 02:24 PM (EST)
 
I studied the note content years ago.

The crime movie quotes, in my opinion, would be likely made by a film critic. A person who watches those movies might be obsessed enough to remember the words but to use them in a ransom note is another level, i.e., a planning level requiring months. So that is why I feel those quotes are from a film critic who would normally review films repetitively in an effort to critique them. Janet McReynolds, who previously had written a play regarding a girl tortured in a basement, would seem to be a likely suspect involved in the composition.

The dollar amount $118,000, although close to John Ramsey's bonus the prior year, would probably have been derived from Bible Psalm 118, which relates to sacrifice for the purpose of praise to God. I believe the timing and method of death was intended as an ancient Celtic style human sacrifice.

Only someone who is knowledgable of ancient punishment of death for incest would leave the dictionary opened to the word. That and the Bible reference Psalm 118 and the opening of John's Bible to other Psalms leads me to believe only someone with a strong Biblical upbringing would do those things. Bill McReynolds is (was) a person familiar with the Ramseys, with Shaker upbringing, who could easily have had such ideas and worked out a plan to "sacrifice" JonBenet.

There is in my opinion a cryptic message hidden in the note which reveals it's purpose...simply another clue to the killer's identity.


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Maikai
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Nov-05-02, 00:59 AM (EST)
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2. "You can' t write or do what you don't"
In response to message #1
 
   know. That's what is so ludicrous about the investigation. The old rule of thumb is if a child is found dead in the house, someone in that house did the crime. The BPD couldn't get past that---and with all their investigation into the Ramseys, I can't imagine they came up with any evidence that Patsy knew those movie lines, or knew how to make a garrotte....let alone any violence in her past.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-05-02, 02:14 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: What BPD can't get past"
In response to message #2
 
   What the BPD can't get past, IMO, is what the FBI told them earlier in the investigation, which probably went something like this: "This has every 'earmark' of a parental involvement- a false kidnapping report, the body was found in the house, covered with a blanket, the scene made to look like something it was not-and other items all outlined in their how-to manual "Mindhunters". This was, again, IMO, a knee jerk analysis based on their profiling techniques, which, as we have seen demonstrated in the recent sniper case, is not always accurate or helpful, and may even be counter productive.

Now, if you know the Ramseys could not have done this crime you have to ask yourselves who would have gone to the trouble of creating this somewhat bizarre type of crime scene. It absolutely makes no sense for a non-guilty, or even a guilty parent(s) to do any of the note, garotte, etc. The only way it makes sense to me is if someone else wanted to make sure the Rams called in a kidnapping to immediately bring in the FBI and their false-kidnapping-profile-sure-fire-parental-involvement-detector which is carefully outlined in chapter 15 of "Mindhunters" along with some other items which were thrown in to help the investigators make the connection.

A couple of mysterious phone calls suggesting how or why the parents were involved were made-I'm thinking of the ball bat swinging Patsy rumor, to match the bat strategically placed at the side of the house where it could not be missed, and the bedwetting Christmas stressors rumor, to match the pull ups carefully left hanging half-way out of the open drawer- and the reported eerie diagnosis of "incest" by an agitated journalist weeks before any autopsy information was released, which of course was matched by the dictionary dog-eared to the word "incest".

The death of a spouse on the 26th. of December with subsequent staging and cover up is explained as stressor triggered. The body was hidden to spare the little son the horror of seeing his mother's body. All this in Mindhunters along with the number 118 (serial killers interviewed for the FBI profiling database), a windowless room, a discussion of the notes that killers leave behind and why.

All this says to me that someone read all this and for reasons only known to them, decided to frame the parents for the already cruel murder of their daughter. I can only imagine that someone who resented them very much would go to the trouble to do so. The intruder/killer must have thought that one of the parents, John the fat cat, must have been involved with his daughter. In view of the fact that there was/is no evidence of that, the killer must have had some personal traumatic history involving incest that caused him to transfer/project a belief of guilt onto the Ramseys. Perhaps the pageant involvement was the precipitating item that convinced the perp they were practicing incest. It does not seem coincidental to me that this is the exact philosophy and prejudice of ##### Hickock, of IN COLD BLOOD fame. Truman Capote recounts #####'s hatred of rich guys who have the beauty contestant girlfriends/wives. ##### excuses his own purient interest in prepubescent girls by imagining that all men have these "feelings" yet the rich have money and lawyers to keep them out of trouble. We learn this as he tries to seduce a 10 year old girl at the beach, after the Clutter family murders, where he takes the girl's hand and calls her his "little sweetheart". The entire focus of the book concerns the motivation for their crime. In the murderer's mind people like the Ramseys are reason for society's problems and he perhaps wanted to make a political-societal statement.

Mikie, I can't see this person as a practicing believer bent on enforcing morality on everyone else and inflicting punishment on them such as was the case with Kevin Spacey in "Seven". Rather, this is a person who resents religious people, thinks them hypocrytes, and wishes to display them as such to the world. They may have had some strict religious background from which they drew a knowledge of scripture but they have turned their back on spiritual truth. It's all a big joke to him. This may be a factor for sacrificing another Christian martyr on "St. Stephens Day", 2000 years after the birth of Christ as well, or the Winter Solstice, a day of pagan celebration and sacrifice.


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Sam
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Nov-05-02, 09:24 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: A CRAZY MAN"
In response to message #3
 
   Would be the kind of person who would write the note. Now who do we know that was near the Ramseys home who is crazy and also is a registered sex offender who confessed to his best friend Michael he had hurt a child a few days after Jonbenet murder who was arrested with a stun gun and a poem to JB.
You guessed it Oliva why is his hand wtiteing not being scrutnized and his alibi the night JB was killed because he is a good susp in my opinion alot better than the Ramseys.
We compared his hand writeing right here on this site and alot of his letters match letters on the ransom note so I'm just baffled why this man is not being treated like a suspect.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-05-02, 12:40 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: The letter "a""
In response to message #4
 
   Here is a link to a page of mine showing all the different types of "a's/A's" made on the 1st. & 2nd. pages of the Ransom Note:

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rn1a.htm

For me, this clearly shows an author who is trying to disguise their printing style. Which of the 6 or more types is the real style of the penman? I think it also should be obvious to everyone that neither the parents or a disorganized perp would/could take the time to write out this note after the crime-the most obvious item to notice would be that it was far safer to not write anything at all.

This is just the a's. My guess is that there are many other types for the various other characters represented in the note. All of which speak to premeditated murder and that the perp had an axe to grind and an agenda to promote through a carefully crafted "ransom note".

It also shows why there can be many other people who show some similarities or "matches". There is a little bit of everything here.


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Sam
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Nov-05-02, 01:59 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: The letter "a""
In response to message #5
 
   When I went to grade school and I was taught to write and read no one ever taught me to write and a like that. Now who teaches people to write and a like that the only a's I've seen written like that is by a computor or type writer.


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Mikiemoderator
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7. "RE: The letter "a""
In response to message #6
 
   I learned to write the regular type in grade school but in mechanical drafting class we were taught to write small case a's like that. Also I noticed that cartoonists do that. I always wondered why.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-06-02, 04:05 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: The letter "w""
In response to message #5
 
   Here is a link to the w's:

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnw.htm

As for the a's, these go all over the map. I had no idea there was this much variability in the characters until I started separating them from the note and placing them side by side.


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Maikai
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9. "Great job, Braveheart"
In response to message #8
 
   Unbundling the words to segregate the letters really shows the variation. I always thought the "f's" were interesting, as well as the "d's". The "d's" seem to be printed pretty consistently. If the handwriting experts are correct, the printing at the end of the note would be more like how the perp wrote normally, because he wouldn't be able to disguise the printing the more he wrote.


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Lilac
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Nov-07-02, 02:17 AM (EST)
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10. "A's"
In response to message #9
 
   I read Sam's post and thought about his/her question...who writes a's like that? The only time I ever made a's like that was when I was trying to be "girly" in my writing -- a little fancy. Hmmmm...I wonder if it WAS a female who wrote it?


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BraveHeart
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Nov-07-02, 02:20 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Great job, Braveheart"
In response to message #9
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-02 AT 02:20 AM (EST)
 
As I have time I will be posting the rest of the letters. I'm separating them by pages so we can perhaps analyze changes that occur from one page to the other. So far, the variability does seem to lessen by the third page.

After setting up the letters like this perhaps I could provide a zip file on one of my web pages that others could download to play with. I want to display prominent persons handwriting side by side as certain members have done in the past only this time we can compare the persons handwriting with all the characters. I think we will see that some of the RN letters are deliberate copies of certain innocent umbrella dwellers. More importantly, we may be able to make a more educated guess which forms of the letters are more acurately those of the perps regular forms and which are deliberately manipulated.

We'll see.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-09-02, 02:04 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Great job, Braveheart"
In response to message #11
 
   While working on the Ransom Letter analysis project, the question came to mind: "Would the writing of a schizophrenic person show tell-tale characteristics, both in content and or graphic expression?" The letters of the Note are so variable that it is hard to believe one person wrote it although the general overall appearance of the note looks as if it has one author. So I posed the question to Mr. Google Search Engine and here is what I discovered:


Many Graphologists say you can determine if a certain handwriting sample is made by a schizophrenic:

"So what can you really tell about a person from their handwriting?

"Everything," says Polly. "I can tell if you're a psychopath. I can tell if you're a schizophrenic. I can tell if you're sober or not sober. I can tell if you have learning disabilities." She goes to the schools and she can tell what kids are in gangs, and if they are on drugs, and even what drugs they are using - all this from handwriting!"
http://earthstar.tripod.com/ESP_dir/polly.html


And others say you cannot:

"Graphoanalysis works very well in analyzing personality. But it officially stays out of medicine and abnormal psychology, leaving these fields for doctors and psychology professionals to research. Nothing in Graphoanalysis enables us to diagnose a writer as specifically a stalker, abused, learning disabled, schizophrenic, or mentally retarded. These conditions are not going to be pinpointed by looking at personality traits."

http://www.igas.com/handwriting.htm


But here is a purported scientific experiment that indicated that you could see certain graphological characteristics:

"Objective: Extrapyramidal motor symptoms (EPMS) in schizophrenia are usually attributed to neuroleptic treatment, although EPMS have been observed in schizophrenic patients before the era of neuroleptics. This study examines the development of EPMS under haloperidol treatment assessed by kinematic handwriting analysis.

Method: Kinematic analysis of handwriting parameters using a digitizing tablet and clinical ratings were obtained from 30 schizophrenic patients on 3 occasions during haloperidol treatment (unmedicated, 3 days and 7 days after first medication) and compared to 30 matched healthy controls.

Results: Neuroleptic-free schizophrenic patients showed significantly impaired handwriting movements compared to healthy subjects and a decline in handwriting parameters during haloperidol treatment.

Conclusions: The results suggest that EPMS may be a sign of both the neuroleptic side-effects and the underlying pathophysiology of schizophrenia."

http://www.thieme.de/abstracts/pharmaco/agnp-abstracts1999/daten/199.html

Reserched EPMS:

"Background Extrapyramidal motor signs (EPS) are well-known symptoms of degenerative ataxia. However, little is known about frequency and appearance of EPS in subtypes of ataxia."

http://archneur.ama-assn.org/issues/v57n10/abs/noc90135.html

And,

Different drugs have greater or lessor effect on the control of these Parkinsin-like tremors, per the link below, another medical test. I gather from reading it that a schizophrenic off their medicine would demonstrate less control of their writing which would therefore show more little hooks, tics, stray marks, tremors, squiggles, etc.

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pasttoc/toc/may1997/205extra.htm

As an aside, some problems associated with schizophrenia:

"Schizophrenia Symptoms
n Hallucinations
n Delusions
n Disordered thought
n Inappropriate emotion
n Often bizarre behavior & speech
n “positive (+) symptoms”
n Normal emotion lost
n Decreased social interaction
n Speech often decreased
n “negative (-) symptoms”"

http://www.uni.edu/walsh/antipsy98.html


"Psychosis is a severe psychiatric disturbance characterized by

A. Impaired behavior

B. Inability to think coherently

C. Inability to comprehend reality

D. Inability to understand disturbance

E. Symptoms may include delusions and hallucinations

II. Examples

Schizophrenia (disordered thinking, emotional withdrawal, paranoid delusions and auditory hallucinations)

"Beside the typical extrapyramidal motor symptoms such as ***rigidity, tremor***, and dyskinesia, a reduction in handwriting area may occur under neuroleptic therapy."

I assume the opposite would be true if off their medication, ie., expansive/free form/ off the lines? Notice any tremor or rigidity in the RN handprinting?

http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00115/bibs/0071005/00710373.htm

Well, I'm running out of time for now and all the info on recognizing schizophrenic tendencies in handwriting seems to be in books and tapes that are for sale for a lot of money. I think I'll try the local libraries or visit Barnes & Noble a few times and report back. I really think there is something to this and I am not a big graphology fan.



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BraveHeart
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Nov-09-02, 02:07 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: letters W & F"
In response to message #12
 
   http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnw.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnF.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnt.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rn1a.htm

Some are new and the other two revised.


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Mikiemoderator
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14. "About schizophrenia"
In response to message #13
 
   There was something in RHGC's writeup that said how Mr P would write sometimes with a shaking hand. Maybe that was indication of schizophrenia?


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BraveHeart
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Nov-11-02, 01:31 AM (EST)
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15. "RE:The letter "Y""
In response to message #14
 
   http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnY.htm


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BraveHeart
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Nov-11-02, 07:08 PM (EST)
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16. "RE:The letter "d" & numbers"
In response to message #15
 
   http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnd.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnNum1.htm


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Sam
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Nov-12-02, 07:54 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: I want to know"
In response to message #16
 
   if people like BraveHeart think the ransom note writeing matches Oliva can anyone advise.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-12-02, 06:07 PM (EST)
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19. "RE:Is this what you mean, Sam?"
In response to message #17
 
   I separated Oliva's letters and lined them up with those of the Ransom Note. Even with these few comparisons I think it'll knock your socks off. Better be sitting down when you read this.

Some comments first. The RN generally has three or more variations on each character. I might think of this as the writer's attempt to disguise his handwriting as most of us have a persistent way of making our alphabet characters when printing or writing.

Curious thing. Even in the short example that we have of Oliva's writing he exhibits the same tendancy for making variations of characters. And most of the ones he makes are eerily sim.......:


http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnR.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnT.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnF.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rn1a.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnd.htm


More to come later


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DonBradley
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Nov-12-02, 08:36 AM (EST)
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18. "Matching Ovila ?"
In response to message #0
 
   By matching Ovila do you mean an analysis of his handwriting or an analysis of his textual stylistic patterns?

If you have handwriting exemplars they should really be superimposed character by character on a grid that measures slant, height, etc.

It is more important to note differences than similarities in handwriting.


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Maikai
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Nov-12-02, 11:56 PM (EST)
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20. "Thank you Braveheart!"
In response to message #18
 
   I don't know how you do it, but the comparison's are great. When I first looked at the handwriting in the police reports, characters such as the d's and a's and r's were so similar, I thought Oliva had practiced writing like the ransom note--just to jerk the cop's chain. However, it was several years later, and he may have thought he wasn't even on the radar screen.....and if he doesn't have access to a computer, he wouldn't know all of the analyses that have been done on the net, alone. I did notice that he uses capital n's...which were lacking in the ransom note..but how hard is it to change just one letter?

In the d's, even the shape of the loops on the bottom, and the obvious placement of the pen to start the letter are similar.

I just can't believe that the cops didn't notice the same thing, and that they didn't investigate further--ie: get his prior handwriting samples. Some of those characters are just too unique to be a coincidence, IMO. Unless it's proved he purposely changed his writing at the time he wrote the jail complaints.

The similarities in the comparison are uncanny.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-14-02, 03:25 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: The letters "g", "m" and "s""
In response to message #20
 
   It just looks more and more like it to me. Couldn't we get a pro to look at this along with some of his earlier work?

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnG.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnM.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnS.htm


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Maikai
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Nov-14-02, 10:22 PM (EST)
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22. "Someone needs to look at the"
In response to message #21
 
   comparisons! You have variations of the same letters in the note....but you also have many of the same variatons in Oliva's...down to the squiggles. I'm going to print them out on transparency film, and compare them on top of each other.


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jamesonadmin
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Nov-15-02, 02:11 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Someone needs to look at the"
In response to message #22
 
   But to be fair, the experts say it isn't the similarities that determine the match - - it is the differences.

I just hope the authorities go after some of his handwriting from 1996 and has theat compared to the RN.


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Maikai
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Nov-15-02, 03:42 AM (EST)
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24. "In the letters compared so far,"
In response to message #23
 
   we're not talking about printing that everyone learns in school to do the same way. Every single one of those letters, IMO, are not printed like most of us are taught---particularly when you look at the variations of each letter within the note, and you have the same variations from Oliva's jail complaint....with the same strokes, tics, starting points, and variation nuances.


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BraveHeart
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Nov-15-02, 12:33 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: The letter "E""
In response to message #24
 
   I don't see many differences. But the point I am trying to make beyond the many similarities is that normally, we make the same letters consistently. It is abnormal, to use 5 variations in a character, such as a "g", and find 4 of those same variations in a short note such as Oliva's complaint. This is consistently happening with each letter I compare.

I want to include all the other persons we have considered over the last two years and who we have samples of, but this comparison is so mindboggling I got stuck on it.

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RnE.htm


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BraveHeart
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Nov-15-02, 02:18 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: H's compared"
In response to message #25
 
   http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RNH.htm

Is there a disorder that leads to the type of out of control writing that we see in the RN letters? I understand that some of the letters are not characteristic of the writer's normal chaotic style and are probably due to intentional misrepresentation but since we know someone who writes chaotically like this and in a note where they are obviously not trying to disguise their identity, can we find some neurological/psychiatric cause? Can we say"hey, multiple personality disordered persons write like this"? Or schizophrenics?

Going to the library to look for a book to answer this question.


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Maikai
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Nov-16-02, 11:52 AM (EST)
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27. "Sure, a mental disorder including"
In response to message #26
 
   substance abuse can be reflected in someone's writing. Those "h's" are really somthing--particularly the Row 4 h you point out...same slants...tic on the bottom, and shape in the hump part.

The stems on not only the "h's" but the "d's" IMO, are signficant--the same variations in many of them.

As far as the slant---it's possible the note was not written consistently at one sitting---he started and stopped it---particularly the ending, which is full of sarcasm---almost a different train of thought, from the first 2/3s which is rather unemotional, just puts forth directions. If the pad of paper was written on by different angles, and started and stopped, it might be the reason there's some of the variations in the slant.

I think the printing reflects the sick brain of the person. A chaotic brain, may have influenced the variations within the letters...and although there may have been some attempt at disguise, this may be the normal printing pattern of the perp. He just may not have been that smart to disguise his printing much--or even gave much thought to it. He knew the pad and pen couldn't be traced back to him.

Since Patsy's handwriting was on the pad, it's not that much of a leap that "just for fun" he might not have tried to copy some of her printing.


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BraveHeart
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28. "RE: more letters:b,i,k"
In response to message #27
 
   http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnb.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rni.htm
http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/Rnk.htm


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DonBradley
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29. "A note and its contents"
In response to message #0
 
   I think Lou Smit is correct in his general assumptions that anyone, parent or intruder, would have written the note prior to the killing since the excitement level afterwards would simply be too high to sit down and write anything at all.

Ofcourse one's first question is why leave a note at all? The next question is why leave a handwritten note in this day and age of a wealth of alternative sources of untraceable materials. Then ofcourse why leave such a lengthy and absurdly fanciful note?

Some suggestions have been:
Safer to write a note there than to be caught with a prepared text in his pocket if there is a burglar alarm that he trips.

Leads a transient lifestyle and has no alternative writing materials or place to put them.

Wrote the note to while away the time awaiting the family's return and had no prior intent to write that note or even any note necessarily, simply a whimsical flight of fancy.

Wrote the note solely to cause additional worry the next day for his 'entertainment'.

Some have seen two authors, one male one female. Some have seen intent to disguise handwriting, some have seen no worry about handwriting because he is nowhere near the group of people ever likely to be asked to submit writing samples.

I certainly see no reason to leave a note at all, much less such a long and weird one. Parents if they chose to concoct a kidnapping scenario would have written a simple 'we got your kid, get the money together and wait by the phone, no cops or she dies; they would not have written about foreign factions and brains and tactics and countermeasures.


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Maikai
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30. "Don, you're obviously within the"
In response to message #29
 
   normal realms of abnormal psychology.

Look at it from the mindset of a paranoid schizophrenic off meds, and possibly a substance abuser, and it will make perfect sense. This crime can't be looked at logically, through the eyes of normalcy. Why do schizos think the newscaster is talking to them through the TV screen---or weird combinations of numbers mean something significant to them? For all we know the perp entered with no clearcut plan in mind, and flipped on the TV and started watching "Nick of Time(?)," (the kidnapping moving that was on that night), and thought the movie was telling him to kidnap a child.

The note was written in the house......the killing implement made in the house---possibly indicating impulsiveness and little planning. We may be giving the killer more credit than due.


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Margoo
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33. "RE: Don, you're obviously within the"
In response to message #30
 
  
>The note was written in the house......the killing implement
>made in the house---possibly indicating impulsiveness and
>little planning. We may be giving the killer more credit
>than due.

I'm with you on that, Maikai! I'm convinced this killer is not sophisticated or clever. More likely, he's been lucky (1) the crime scene wound up as contaminated as it did and (2) that LE refused offers of assistance from anyone with homicide experience and (3) that LE saw fit to focus attention on the wrong suspects, wasting time, money, and manpower.

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DonBradley
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36. "RE: Don, you're obviously within the"
In response to message #33
 
   >I'm convinced this killer is not sophisticated or clever.
I see it as a distinct possibility, however, I would hesitate to use the term 'convinced'. I hesitate to bring in items that properly belong in other threads but there was what I would term a 'penumbra' surrounding the Ramseys. This 'penumbra' of evil was totally unknown to them and I think to a high degree, unknowable to them due to their being so honest and open people.

By 'penumbra of evil' I am referring to such things as: McSanta who injected himself into the Ramsey's life (oh, I know he 'claimed' that Patsy approached him at the Pearl Street Deli, but he approached Patsy and the kids), McSanta being a 'closet gay' or atleast having had a long term habit of viewing male nudes, etc. Or Mrs.Santa whose movie reviews seemed to always dwell on death and evil, no matter what the movie was about. I would even include the Whites, not so much for any 'overt evil' but more simply as being "mooches or leeches" whichever term you care to use. And Pricilla White being so 'mean spirited' in her behavior.

With all these questionable characters around the place, I find it hard to say "convinced", particularly with the white tape on the balcony door indicating prior knowledge of door color and prior access to the house.

> More likely, he's been lucky
>(1) the crime scene wound up as contaminated as it did and
>(2) that LE refused offers of assistance from anyone with
>homicide experience and (3) that LE saw fit to focus
>attention on the wrong suspects, wasting time, money, and
>manpower.
Yes, although I would add that it was not so much 'crime scene contamination' as a very cursory forensic effort. Lou Smit is very loathe to criticise his fellow LE personnel or institutions, but lets face it, the BPD forensic team didn't have their heart in the job at all. "The parents did it, any evidence we find will be explained away by them as 'we live here' so lets not do any more than go through the motions in a perfunctory manner". Oh no one may have actually said that, but I think thats what the BPD forensics team thought. Remember, at first the BPD forensics team wasn't even going to be sent into the house at all. Trip DeMeuth forced them to get sent in.

I would also add that the most important 'luck' for some otherwise hapless incompetent who may have wandered into the home, is the obsessive and sole focus on the parents. No one looked at a pedophile who was known to be in the area, known to use the alleyway, known to like to strangle, known to 'like' girls of that age and known to have made a tearful confession of having done something awful at or about that time.
How "lucky" can known pedophiles be? He might still be innocent, but he should have been protesting his innocence down at police headquarters long, long ago.


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Margoo
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37. "RE: Don, you're obviously within the"
In response to message #36
 
   >
>With all these questionable characters around the place, I
>find it hard to say "convinced", particularly with the white
>tape on the balcony door indicating prior knowledge of door
>color and prior access to the house.


Sorry, Don, I don't have a clue what you are referring to here. "White tape on the balcony door", please explain.


>
>I would also add that the most important 'luck' for some
>otherwise hapless incompetent who may have wandered into the
>home, is the obsessive and sole focus on the parents. No one
>looked at a pedophile who was known to be in the area, known
>to use the alleyway, known to like to strangle, known to
>'like' girls of that age and known to have made a tearful
>confession of having done something awful at or about that
>time.
>How "lucky" can known pedophiles be? He might still be
>innocent, but he should have been protesting his innocence
>down at police headquarters long, long ago.


And of the long list of mysteries in this case, the mystery as to why that hasn't happened is one near or at the top for me. We naive ones of this world assume BPD has taken care of/are taking care of investigating this prime suspect from top to bottom, particularly following the recent media attention on him. If they have/are not, the CO taxpayers should be screaming FROM THE ROOFTOPS!!!!

Please say the world is safe from him - at least for now - and that he is still incarcerated.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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DonBradley
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38. "White duct tape."
In response to message #37
 
   >Sorry, Don, I don't have a clue what you are referring to
>here. "White tape on the balcony door", please explain.

Sometime after the corpse had been discovered, it was also noted that a piece of white duct tape matching the color of the door edge and door jamb had been placed at eye level on the inside of the balcony door.

To some this indicates prior knowledge of the door's coloring and prior, uninterrupted access to the home.

Fingerprint tape is clear plastic; evidence tape is brightly colored with noticeable borders in a diamond pattern. This was simply white tape and did not appear to be there from any forensic activity. I however still feel that entry and exit was via the basement and that someone who had 'rigged' the balcony door would not bother to explore the basement.


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Margoo
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Dec-03-02, 03:34 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: A note and its contents"
In response to message #29
 
   >I think Lou Smit is correct in his general assumptions that
>anyone, parent or intruder, would have written the note
>prior to the killing since the excitement level afterwards
>would simply be too high to sit down and write anything at
>all.

That's how I see it. Most likely written while waiting for the family to return from the White's. The fact that the writing implements came from the house, reinforces that theory for me.

>
>Ofcourse one's first question is why leave a note at all?
>The next question is why leave a handwritten note in this
>day and age of a wealth of alternative sources of
>untraceable materials. Then ofcourse why leave such a
>lengthy and absurdly fanciful note?
>
>Some suggestions have been:
>Safer to write a note there than to be caught with a
>prepared text in his pocket if there is a burglar alarm that
>he trips.
>
>Leads a transient lifestyle and has no alternative writing
>materials or place to put them.

This suggestion works best for me.

>
>Wrote the note to while away the time awaiting the family's
>return and had no prior intent to write that note or even
>any note necessarily, simply a whimsical flight of fancy.

I believe the intruder got into his fantasy mode and decided to write a very fancy-ful "ransom note" that had nothing to do with actually collecting a ransom. I think this wing-nut was a movie buff who went into la-la land, seeing himself as the great writer of a ransom note along the lines of what he would think might be written in a movie. There are too many "angles" to this note to be anything other than a flight of fancy. He darts around from one type of "character" to another in his writings as the kidnapper (a member of a foreign faction, a master planner for the exhausting drop, a child-killer without conscience, an expert on law enforcement countermeasures, a tough guy (don't provoke us), etc)

>Wrote the note solely to cause additional worry the next day
>for his 'entertainment'.

I think it was for immediate gratification (entertainment).

>Some have seen two authors, one male one female. Some have
>seen intent to disguise handwriting, some have seen no worry
>about handwriting because he is nowhere near the group of
>people ever likely to be asked to submit writing samples.
>
I think he was not overly concerned about being identified by his handwriting because he is not easily connected to the Ramseys. But, I think he was concerned enough to stick to printing rather than handwriting (script).

>I certainly see no reason to leave a note at all, much less
>such a long and weird one. Parents if they chose to concoct
>a kidnapping scenario would have written a simple 'we got
>your kid, get the money together and wait by the phone, no
>cops or she dies; they would not have written about foreign
>factions and brains and tactics and countermeasures.


I think the writer is not very sophisticated. Possibly immature. The $118,000 is ridiculous with 1,000 $100 bills and 900 $20 bills. He is arrogant with his "grow a brain" remark.

I might call you at 8 or I might call you at 10 or I might call you early if we see you have collected the money. Just how much earlier than 8 AM does he think John might manage to get to the bank and get this money?? Duuuhhhh!

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jamesonadmin
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Dec-03-02, 08:55 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: A note and its contents"
In response to message #31
 
   I might call you at 8 or I might call you at 10 or I might call you early if we see you have collected the
money. Just how much earlier than 8 AM does he think John might manage to get to the bank and get
this money?? Duuuhhhh!


The person obviously thought John had more influence than he did - another indication that the writer of the RN really didn't know what John could or could not do.

If a parent was writing that note to stage things, wouldn't they have allowed time to go to the bank?

Good catch.


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Sam
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34. "RE: A note and its contents"
In response to message #32
 
   I think Braveheart has shown in detail that Olivas hand writeing and the ransom note match IMO. Now jameson was saying the hand writeing experts look for differences, that's not what I watched on tv the other night when a hand writeing expert help solve a murder. A young woman around 21 years of age was murdered in her apartment, she had been strangled to death. Written with lip stick on the dresser mirror was YOU WILL BE NEXT JEFF. Jeff was the girls boy friend, a wittness told the police earlier in the day they saw the vict going to the laundry room and a real tall young man was helping her carry the dirty cloths. Jeff had a friend that was real tall and his hand writeing matched the writeing on the mirror it was a match not different and the hand writeing expert who performed the analysis was interviewed on the program and never said anything about the writeing being different. He showed where the writeing and just about all the letters matched just like Braveheart has done.


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Margoo
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Dec-03-02, 04:28 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: A note and its contents"
In response to message #34
 
   Sam
I agree that there are alot of similarities to Oliva in the handwriting examples, but what makes me hesitate to even consider this part of the evidence is the INCONSISTENCIES with the so-called experts delivering a believable testimonial of what it all indicates and its merit as a valid part of the prosecution or defense of a suspect. As we have seen in this case, it seems you can get support for whichever side of the argument you need by simply HIRING (paying enough bucks) an "expert" willing to put on a "case" one way or the other. It's such an inexact science (IMO) and up for debate in too many areas. Too subjective (IMO).

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jamesonadmin
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39. "RE: A note and its contents"
In response to message #35
 
   Oliva is still on my person suspect list - - i have NO reason to think he was cleared at this point.


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