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1 A. I don't know.
2 Q. We are going to assume the fact
3 that she did not take a bath because you
4 previously stated that. Would she change her
5 underwear if she didn't take a bath on
6 Christmas Day?
7 MR. WOOD: Excuse me. You
8 remember that she has been asked that now.
9 MR. LEVIN: I have known that.
10 MR. WOOD: Why didn't he know
11 that?
12 MR. LEVIN: I can't speak for Mr.
13 Kane.
14 MR. KANE: I don't have a big
15 catalog of every single question and answer.
16 MR. LEVIN: I don't either. I
17 can assure you Mr. Kane knows many facts I
18 don't know.
19 MR. WOOD: Well, you all planned
20 the interview. You have got him over here
21 claiming he doesn't know if a question's been
22 asked. Why didn't you pop up and look over
23 and say she had answered that.
24 MR. LEVIN: I didn't want to
25 interrupt you, Mr. Wood. You were very

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1 upset.
2 MR. WOOD: I am not upset.
3 MR. LEVIN: You were upset that
4 you were interrupted by Mr. Kane.
5 MR. WOOD: I'm upset that when I
6 tried to speak I was interrupted, but why
7 didn't you look over and say, Mitch, I mean,
8 Michael, she has answered that.
9 MR. LEVIN: I was just going to
10 let each of you speak and then ask my
11 question.
12 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Do you know if
13 she changed her underwear?
14 A. I do not know.
15 Q. Would it be her routine habit or
16 practice, if she is going out for dinner at
17 friends, for her to change from head to toe,
18 including her underwear, getting dressed to
19 go out for the evening, even if she didn't
20 take a bath?
21 A. I don't know that there is any
22 particular routine. She may have. I don't
23 know.
24 Q. If she listened to mom, would she
25 have done that? I mean, we are going out,

105
1 you change from head to toe, wash up?
2 MR. WOOD: You are saying if she
3 had said that?
4 MR. LEVIN: No. I am saying,
5 this child was raised by Mrs. Ramsey, and I
6 am assuming that, in the course of your
7 raising your child, that it was JonBenet, we
8 are going out, even if she hadn't taken a
9 bath, you wash up, you change your clothes,
10 and that would include if she hasn't bathed,
11 change your underwear because she is running
12 around and playing all day.
13 MR. WOOD: Are you stating that
14 is what you do with your children?
15 MR. LEVIN: No. I am asking
16 her.
17 THE WITNESS: I don't, I don't
18 remember the course of events --
19 MR. LEVIN: Okay.
20 THE WITNESS: - really.
21 Q. (By Mr. Levin) So you just don't
22 know whether or not she changed her
23 underpants?
24 A. I don't know.

No one is sure that JonBenét did not take any bath that day - but the chances are she did not.

So for the sake of argument, let's say she did not take a bath.

No one knows what panties JonBenét had on in the morning when the Ramseys opened their presents. No one knows if she changed her panties when she changed into the black pants and white sweater to go to the party at the Whites'.

Really, what difference does it make? She may have had them on from the 24th when she dressed up to go to church (but I would think she would have worn the TUESDAY panties on that day - the 24th was a Tuesday.)

She may have put on the Wednesday panties when she got out of her pajamas on Christmas day.

She may have changed panties when getting ready for the party.

No one will ever know now - - and what difference does it make?

Fact is, she was wearing them when her body was found and there is no reason at all to think the killer changed her panties during the crime.

Personally, I thought this line of questioning was a waste of time. A way to badger and upset the witness while NOT looking at any intruder evidence.

As for Lin and his jumping in - - - the whole premise of the meeting was for K&C to meet with the Ramseys and ask questions about things that had come up since their last interview - - that is what they asked for and that is what the Ramseys agreed to. The mood was supposed to be one of cooperation - - not an interrogation.

106
1 prior interviews, I think it was '98, but I
2 am not certain, you were asked and stated
3 that, on occasion, she would leave her
4 underclothes at a friend's house if they had
5 gone swimming or gotten wet. Do you
6 remember that?
7 MR. WOOD: Hold on. Do you have
8 a copy of that?
9 MR. LEVIN: I don't have it right
10 here.
11 MR. WOOD: I mean, I asked you
12 all to be able to produce those prior
13 statements so we can look at it in context.
14 MR. LEVIN: We've got it in the
15 computer. Mr. Wood, I will represent to you
16 that that is a statement that your client
17 made. I have a clear recollection. I am
18 not -- this is not an attempt to make her
19 -- I am developing a question that assumes
20 that to be true. I will represent to you
21 that, to a near certainty, as certain as
22 someone can be, in reviewing statements and
23 working on this case for two years, I
24 believe that statement to be made. And I am
25 not trying to trick you or your client. I'm

107
1 trying - as Mr. Kane said, I am here to
2 try to solve the murder of a young child.
3 And I'm not --
4 MR. WOOD: We are here to help
5 you.
6 MR. LEVIN: And I understand that
7 and I appreciate that.
8 MR. WOOD: Within the request as
9 made and the request as agreed to.
10 MR. LEVIN: I understand that.
11 And if you were a judge, I would look you
12 in the eye and say as an officer of the
13 court, Your Honor, I have no -- I believe in
14 my heart that statement was made. Okay?
15 MR. WOOD: And the judge would
16 look at you, Bruce, and say, Mr. Levin, it
17 is your responsibility, when asking about a
18 prior statement, to produce the statement for
19 the witness to look at to put it into
20 context. Am I right, Mr. Levin? That is
21 all I asked you to do.
22 MR. LEVIN: My judge would take
23 my word because my word is my bond, sir.
24 MR. WOOD: Well, my judge would
25 say the proper examination would give the

108
1 witness an opportunity, not only to take your
2 statement as you set it forth, which you
3 admit may or may not be exactly accurate,
4 but to take that statement and look at it in
5 context because I don't know what question
6 you will necessarily follow up with, Bruce.
7 That is all. We are not judges. We are
8 lawyers. But I did ask Chief Beckner, if
9 there were going to be prior statements for
10 you all to bring them so that we could look
11 at them and put her, put them into context.
12 That is all.
13 MR. LEVIN: And we have them. If
14 you want to take time --
15 Q. (By Mr. Levin) I mean, there is
16 a simple way. You recall saying that, don't
17 you? Isn't that the easy way to do it?
18 MR. WOOD: That may be fine, but
19 I think she is entitled to see it anyway.
20 That is all I am saying so she can look at
21 it.
22 MR. LEVIN: If I was in a
23 courtroom and she was under oath. It is not
24 a deposition. This is an interview. That
25 is all.

109
1 MR. WOOD: She is not. It's an
2 interview. And all I asked going into the
3 interview is, if this came up, because there
4 has been so many hours and days of
5 interviews and statements that, fairly, now
6 two years plus since June of 1998, three
7 years plus since April of 1997, that if
8 there is statements, media or otherwise, put
9 them out there, she will look at it, she
10 will answer your question.
11 MR. LEVIN: Why don't we just ask
12 her if she recalls it, and then we can save
13 some time.
14 MR. WOOD: Well, we can ask her
15 that, and I will let her answer that, Bruce,
16 but I want to set the procedure correctly
17 that, when we get into these things about
18 prior statements, that I really did expect
19 and think it fair that you all have them for
20 her to look at it and put it into context.
21 It may not be of consequence here, but it
22 certainly may be later when there are more
23 difficult questions. Okay?
24 MR. LEVIN: I understand.
25 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Do you remember

110
1 saying that during one of your interviews?
2 A. Tell me what --
3 Q. That on occasion JonBenet may go
4 over to a friend's house, I think you talked
5 about the White's daughter Daphne, and they
6 could go swimming or do something and she
7 might leave her underwear there, get a clean
8 pair from a friend and then be laundered,
9 returned, you would do the same for her
10 girlfriends who may have been -- got wet
11 from swimming or doing, got dirty playing
12 outside. Do you recall saying that?
13 A. Not specifically.
14 Q. Do you recall that occurring then?
15 A. Probably did. I can't say for
16 sure, but --
17 Q. Okay. What I am interested in is
18 whether or not you have a recollection as to
19 whether or not any of the Bloomi panties,
20 and I certainly wouldn't want to pin you
21 down to the day or the week, all right, but
22 do you ever recall any of the Bloomi panties
23 from November to the time of JonBenet's
24 murder being left at a friend's house and
25 then returned to you?

111
1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you recall any occasions where
3 JonBenet had an accident at school and -- I
4 know that they kept at her school like I
5 think they do at most grammar schools, they
6 have a box of like clean underpants if a kid
7 has an accident at school, do you ever
8 remember her getting to that situation and
9 borrowing panties from the school and having
10 to return them?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. I am slightly confused,
13 and I would like this clarified. When I
14 first started to ask you about the purchase
15 of the panties in November, I got the
16 impression that you were somewhat unclear as
17 to whether you bought two sets or one.
18 In follow-up questions, I got the
19 impression that you felt confident that you
20 only bought one. Do you know?
21 A. I really can't remember.
22 Q. Do you recall that you did -- you
23 never mailed this pair out to --
24 A. Jenny, yes.
25 Q. Okay. So if there was an

112
1 unopened package, it would have been left in
2 the house?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Mrs. Ramsey,
5 prior to going to the Whites, did you see
6 JonBenet in panties? In other words, were
7 you at any point, prior to going to the
8 Whites, in the process of her getting
9 dressed, did you ever see if she was wearing
10 panties?
11 A. I mean, I just probably didn't
12 notice. I would, she must have had them on
13 or I would have certainly noticed if she
14 didn't have any on.
15 Q. When you came home and you got
16 her ready for bed, did you notice if she was
17 wearing panties? When you changed her out
18 of the black velvet --
19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
20 Q. - type pants --
21 A. Right.
22 Q. -- and into the long underwear
23 pants --
24 A. Uh-huh, right.
25 Q. -- the White ones, did you notice

113
1 if she had a pair of panties on?
2 A. Yes, she did. I believe she did.
3 Q. Why do you remember that? I
4 mean, what do you remember? I just want to
5 know what you remember about that.
6 A. Well, I took the jeans off and
7 put the long leggies on.
8 Q. And you noticed that she had
9 panties on in that process?
10 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
11 Q. You have to answer yes or no.
12 A. Well, I noticed -- I mean,
13 nothing was unusual. I mean, if she hadn't
14 had panties on, it would have been unusual.
15 So --
16 Q. So there was nothing unusual
17 there?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. When you actually removed those --
20 you have -- they are black velvet pants?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did the panties come down
23 with them when you removed those pants, if
24 you remember?
25 A. I don't remember.

114
1 Q. If they had, would you remember,
2 or is that too long ago?
3 A. It has been a long time.
4 Q. But did you change -- did you put
5 a fresh pair of panties on her at that point
6 when you were getting her ready for bed?
7 A. No.
8 Q. (By Mr. Wickman) Mrs. Ramsey, I
9 have a daughter myself, and kids do strange
10 things, but was it her habit, when she
11 changed clothes, did she have a routine to
12 put them in a basket if they were dirty?
13 How did that work?
14 A. She usually probably dropped them
15 wherever they came off.
16 MR. WICKMAN: Okay. Thank you.
17 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Was that pretty
18 much her practice with most of her clothes?
19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
20 Q. I mean, not just her underwear,
21 just they are off, new pair?
22 A. (Witness nodded head
23 affirmatively).
24 MR. WOOD: Wait until he
25 finishes and then answer.

115
1 Q. (By Mr. Levin) For the record,
2 you were nodding your head, and I take that
3 as a yes.
4 A. Yes.
5 MR. LEVIN: Anything else on that
6 topic?
7 MR. KANE: No.

OK - - A pair of panties were found in a pair of pants in her bathroom - - JonBenét had slipped off the slacks and panties in one piece and left them lying on the floor.

I can't be sure but I know it seemed to me that JonBenet had probably worn those slacks Christmas day to play and then took them off to go to the Whites - and it was then, I believe, that she put on the Wednesday panties - they were new and kind of special because they were bought for Jenny but now belonged to her.

Just wanted to share that.

As for the rest - I can see they wanted to know if the panties were from Daphne or someone else BUT - - - they should have understood long before 2000 that the panties were new and belonged to JonBenét. The rest of the package was in the house - certainly they photographed it and had those images even if they had failed to take the package in as evidence.

It seems to me that K&C may have purposely misrepresented the reason for this meeting to catch the Ramseys off-guard.

I am still waiting for them to cover new ground - new information that needed to be discussed because they didn't have it in 1998.

VERY excellent point. This would explain the fibers being in her panties.