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Conferences Deposition discussion Topic #60
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Nov-11-03, 11:19 PM (EST)
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"Patsy in Atlanta - 17"
4 MR. WOOD: Ready to go?
5 MR. KANE: I am ready.
6 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Mrs. Ramsey, the
7 last question I asked you was, you had this
8 concern about Burke and this killer and the
9 potential that he could be harmed, and in
10 spite of concerns by your security people,
11 you had him transported to and from the
12 school by Susan Stein. Did Ms. Stein have
13 any kind of training in self-defense, to your
14 knowledge?
15 A. I don't know.
16 Q. Does she have any kind of
17 training in taking evasive maneuvers if
18 someone were to try to get into her car at
19 a stop sign or anything like that?
20 A. I don't know if she had any
21 formal training in that.

LOLOLOL Susan Stine is formidible - ask any tabloid reporter! John and Patsy knew she would defend Burke if needed - they trusted her and she didn't let them down.

Formal training really isn't always what counts - - it's heart that counts sometimes.

22 Q. Was there a discussion, when you
23 talked about security issues with either
24 Tracy Temple or with Ellis Armistead, were
25 you privy to discussions about the potential

1 for harm to come to Burke while being
2 transported to or from school?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And in your recollection, that
5 never came up as an issue? Is that what
6 you are saying?
7 A. No.
8 Q. No, it didn't come up or --
9 A. I was unaware if it ever came up.
10 Q. Okay. When I asked you about
11 what it was that you had in mind in setting
12 up a security system, I take it that you
13 thought somebody could come into the school
14 and do harm to Burke inside the school; is
15 that correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Okay. The --
18 A. That's inconclusive of media as
19 well.
20 Q. Oh, okay. But was it more media
21 than the killer?
22 A. Well, it was all of those. You
23 know, the media would alert -- their presence
24 there would alert everyone that Burke was at
25 the school, so I wasn't crazy about them

1 hanging around the school. Of course, the
2 killer was still out there; although, we had
3 been advised that he probably would not, you
4 know, come out because now everybody is
5 alerted and looking for him.
6 You know, and then there is what
7 they call copy cat people, you know, who
8 want to get a piece of the publicity, and
9 they would be lurking around.
10 Q. And who was it who gave you this
11 advice that the killer would probably not
12 want to come back?
13 A. John Douglas.
14 Q. Okay. And did Mr. Douglas tell
15 you that -- or what did he tell you?
16 A. Well, he said we had to be aware
17 of three situations. One, obviously the
18 killer was at large; two, what you call a
19 copy cat killer, somebody that says, oh, that
20 looks like an interesting idea, I think I
21 will try to do the same thing; and, three,
22 what he termed vigilante perpetrators or
23 whatever term you want to use for them. You
24 know, somebody that says, oh, you know, the
25 police aren't taking care of this, I will

1 take care of it.
2 In other words, just alerting us
3 that there are a lot of crazy people out
4 there.
5 Q. And the first, so the first
6 concern he said was that it was probably
7 unlikely that the killer would come back, the
8 person that perpetrated the crime; is that
9 what he said?
10 A. He said it was very unlikely.
11 Q. Okay. But how about the copy cat
12 killer, what kind of opinion did he offer
13 about the potential for that?
14 A. He said it was very great.
15 Q. And this would be somebody who
16 would try to pattern what had already
17 happened to JonBenet, to do the same thing
18 to Burke?
19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative). Right.
20 MR. LEVIN: Can I interrupt you
21 just a second, Mike? I am sorry.
22 MR. KANE: Yes.
23 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, as I
24 understand it, at this point in time, which
25 would be early 1997, your belief was that

1 the murder of your daughter was an act of
2 retaliation for some unknown reason towards
3 either you or your husband?
4 A. Right.
5 Q. You no longer hold that belief;
6 correct?
7 A. Not necessarily.
8 Q. I was under the impression that,
9 in your book, you stated you thought it was
10 a pedophile.
11 A. Well, it could be one in the
12 same.
13 Q. I see.
14 MR. LEVIN: Thank you, ma'am.

What? How is that going to help identify the killer? Come ON, K&C - shart talking suspects, for crying out loud!

15 Q. (By Mr. Kane) In the third, the
16 vigilante, what was Mr. Douglas' opinion
17 about the probability or possibility about
18 somebody feeling that the authorities weren't
19 getting to the bottom of this so that they
20 would do harm?
21 A. Uh-huh (indicating affirmatively).
22 Q. What was his opinion about how
23 strong of a threat that was?
24 A. He just thought it was very
25 strong because, in his years of experience,

1 there are lots of those kinds of strange
2 people out there.
3 Q. Did he talk to you about where
4 your copy cat killer or vigilante might
5 strike and where you should be careful?
6 A. No.
7 Q. But you thought that school was
8 certainly one of the places that a person
9 could come in?
10 A. Well, since that's where Burke
11 spent the greatest part of his day.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. You know, I'm the mother of a
14 murdered child. I was fearful, just fearful
15 of everything. Most particularly about my
16 child, my husband, and myself.
17 Q. Okay. And, I mean, did you have
18 discussions either with Mr. Douglas or with
19 Ellis Armistead or any of the other security
20 people that you had, had you had discussions
21 with them about how somebody might pose a
22 threat to Burke while he was in school?
23 A. Not specifically.
24 Q. Did you have any kind of security
25 on Burke outside of school?

1 A. Well, he was with us all the
2 time. You know, he was pretty much in a
3 protected environment other than the time he
4 was in school.

I think most of us feel we can protect out kids ourselves - or we trust other adults can (teachers and the like.) Especially if we know we are being vigilant.

What is K&C saying would have been the proper response to this murder - - for them to pull Burke out of school to homeschool him with armed guards stationed at every door?


The killer had his chance to take Burke and didn't. There was little reason to think Burke was a target.

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Patsy in Atlanta - 17 [View All], jamesonadmin, 11:19 PM, Nov-11-03, (0)  
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Nov-11-03, 11:21 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Patsy in Atlanta - 17"
In response to message #0
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-03 AT 11:22 PM (EST)
5 Q. When you say a protected
6 environment, other than the fact that his
7 parents were there, was there any protection
8 afforded to him outside of school? You
9 hired Tracy Temple, obviously, who was a
10 trained martial arts person, I believe.
11 A. Yeah. Well, we had, you know,
12 for many days, we had security people, you
13 know, with us at the homes where we were
14 staying for quite some time.
15 Q. Where, which homes?
16 A. Jay Olowski's. I know we had
17 somebody there then. And I believe there
18 might have been someone when we were at Mike
19 Bienam's house.
20 Q. Who were these people? Who were
21 the security people?
22 A. Somebody Ellis's group sent.
23 Q. So Ellis Armistead hired somebody
24 to be at Jay Olowski's house?
25 A. Yes.

So now we know they did fear for their safety in the beginning - enough to have armed security people nearby. But fear does fade - - and did.
1 Q. Did they stay in the house or
2 outside the house?
3 A. Inside.
4 Q. Inside the house?
5 A. Mostly at night.
6 Q. And you moved into Mike Bienam's
7 house at some point?
8 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
9 Q. Was that after Jay Olowski?
10 A. No. That was before.
11 Q. Okay. And then how about the
12 Stein's, did you have anybody there?
13 A. I can't remember. I don't think
14 we did as much. We may have for a few
15 days when we first got there.
16 Q. The people, the security people
17 that were hired while you were at Mike
18 Bienam's, let me -- how long did you stay at
19 Bienam's after?
20 A. My memory is real fuzzy with
21 those days, but -- I can't remember that. A
22 few days. Maybe a week or something.
23 Q. And then you went to Jay
24 Olowski's?
25 A. Right.

1 Q. And you were there for a month or
2 so?
3 A. A couple of months, right.
4 Q. And then you went to the Stein's?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. And this person or these people,
7 how many -- was it one person that you had
8 as security at Jay Olowski's or was it a
9 series of people?
10 A. It might be different people.
11 Q. Was this 24 hour a day coverage?
12 A. No. It was mostly at night.
13 Q. And you say they were inside?
14 They were hired to be inside the house?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. For the whole time that you
17 stayed at Jay Olowski's house?
18 A. I don't remember. I don't know
19 if it was the whole time.
20 Q. Did these people -- this security,
21 you don't remember who it was?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did they have any -- did you
24 discuss with them transporting Burke to
25 school?

1 A. No.

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Nov-11-03, 11:25 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Patsy in Atlanta - 17"
In response to message #1
2 Q. Did you discuss with anybody
3 having a professional security person
4 transport Burke to school?
5 A. I don't know. John may have. I
6 don't know.
7 Q. How about you, though? You were
8 involved in discussions with the school and
9 with the school district and with the
10 principal, I believe, is that correct, about
11 security arrangements while Burke was in
12 school?
13 A. I think so, yes. I mean, part
14 of the concern was I wanted him protected,
15 but at the same time I didn't want him made
16 paranoid, you know. And he didn't want -- I
17 didn't want him -- he didn't like Tracy
18 Temple being there. He said, mom, why is
19 this woman watching me all the time, and he
20 knew the kids knew that she was watching.
21 And so I am trying to walk a
22 fine line to keep me happy and peace of mind
23 about the security of my child, at the same
24 time not making him overly paranoid. So
25 the, you know, the best situation that we

1 could come up with that was satisfactory to
2 both John and me was that he would be, you
3 know, picked up by Susan Stein. She began
4 taking him to school when we were at the
5 Olowski's. She would take him, and I
6 believe at that time nobody really knew where
7 we were. And he would duck down, you know,
8 and she would get him to the school and that
9 kind of thing.
10 Q. So you made a conscious decision
11 then not to have security --
12 A. In the transport.
13 Q. -- because Burke didn't feel
14 comfortable having security; is that what you
15 --
16 A. Right. He was, you know, he
17 was --
18 MR. WOOD: You are talking about
19 the lady Temple?
20 Q. (By Mr. Kane) No. You said
21 that --
22 A. Well, Susan, you know -- see, we
23 were -- the objective was to try to give him
24 as much normalcy as possible, but at the
25 same time putting, you know, security,

1 security measures in place that would, you
2 know, ensure his security.
3 Q. Why was the decision made to have
4 the security inside the classroom versus to
5 and from school?
6 A. Well, because -- and she -- I
7 don't believe Tracy was inside the classroom.
8 I think she was standing in the hall like
9 near close to the front doors so she could
10 kind of be watching doors.
11 Q. Well, inside the school proper.
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Why was the decision made, as you
14 said --
15 A. Well, it was much more of an
16 uncontrolled environment. I mean, when you
17 go from a locked garage to locked car to,
18 you know, adult escort into the classroom,
19 you know, that's pretty safe.
20 Q. Is that what was represented to
21 you, was that it was more secure -- it was
22 more unsecure inside the school than it was
23 going to and from school?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And who represented that to you?

1 Who told you that? I mean, when you say
2 that, let me ask it this way.
3 When you say that was represented
4 to you, was this represented to you by a
5 security consultant or Tracy Temple or Ellis
6 Armistead?
7 A. I don't remember. You know, I
8 just remember saying that I wanted somebody
9 at the school watching, you know. And at
10 first, you know, we put Tracy Temple there,
11 and then, you know, Burke was bothered by
12 her being there, the children didn't know who
13 she was, and the school said, you know, this
14 is kind of becoming disruptive.
15 And I said, well, you know, if
16 there is nobody there, he's coming out. And
17 then is when Susan and Roxy Walker got
18 together with the principal, I believe, and
19 said, you know, could we set up what they
20 call a Burke watch.
21 And they had a team of volunteer
22 parents, all of whom I knew, who volunteered
23 around the clock to be right at the door,
24 right outside the door of his fourth grade
25 classroom.

1 And if he went to the bathroom or
2 somewhere, somebody would (indicating), you
3 know, without being right on his back, but
4 they were watching.
5 Q. And what were they expected to do
6 if somebody came into the school and tried
7 to harm Burke?
8 A. The first thing was to punch that
9 Lavalier, and call 911 and start screaming.
10 Q. And then what were they expected
11 to do after doing this, while the 911
12 response came in?
13 A. I don't know --

"...when you go from a locked garage to locked car to, you know, adult escort into the classroom, you know, that's pretty safe."

I would hope so. I would think so under the same circumstances - especially with everyone sensitive to the situation and keeping a close watch.

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Nov-11-03, 11:28 PM (EST)
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4. "Kane gets pissy again"
In response to message #2
14 MR. WOOD: I don't want to stir
15 this up, but, you know, you guys got all the
16 meat off this chicken you are going to get.
17 Come on, move on to something else. I am
18 sitting here listening. You know, this is
19 just absurd. This doesn't have anything to
20 do with JonBenet's murder.
21 MR. KANE: Are you asking her not
22 to answer the question?
23 MR. WOOD: I am asking you to
24 move on to something productive. You just
25 beat this one to death, man. Let's go.

1 THE WITNESS: I don't know what
2 they were supposed to do. They were
3 supposed to be there as a pair of eyes on
4 him and at a, you know, at an arm's length
5 without disrupting him, necessarily, but
6 keeping him as safe as possible.
7 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Well, Mr. Douglas
8 was brought into the case early, back in
9 January of 1997, and why was he brought into
10 the case?
11 A. I --
12 MR. WOOD: Mr. Kane, you don't
13 really want to ask questions on stuff
14 subsequent to June of 1998, do you?
15 MR. KANE: I made the record. I
16 said if the objection is going to be that I
17 can't, then I have no further questions.
18 And you said go ahead and ask your
19 questions.
20 MR. WOOD: No. I told you that
21 I was not going to change my position. You
22 were either going to do what Chief Beckner
23 asked to be done and we agreed to --
24 CHIEF BECKNER: Before we go on,
25 time out, time out.

1 MR. WOOD: Mr. Kane just wants a
2 free-for-all. We didn't come here prepared
3 to do that. Maybe we would have done it if
4 you asked for it. I don't know. But this
5 is not in good faith what you asked me to
6 do, Chief.
7 CHIEF BECKNER: Hang on here. I
8 believe the questions you are leading up to
9 are based on, while it goes back to an event
10 prior to June of 1998, it is based on
11 information from interviews that you got
12 subsequent to June of 1998; isn't that
13 correct.
14 MR. KANE: Correct.
15 MR. WOOD: Well, you all can work
16 that out amongst themselves, but asking why
17 they hired John Douglas, I mean, you know,
18 that's just not going to get it, so I am
19 going to ask you to move on to something
20 that is new, a new question based on
21 information developed or evidence since June
22 of 1998.
23 I'm going to draw the line now
24 with you, and I am going to draw it very
25 firm. Okay?

1 If you want to make a record with
2 me making that statement, I will be glad to
3 make it each and every time, and maybe you
4 will catch a question I will let her answer
5 and maybe you won't. 285
6 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Did John Douglas
7 interview you?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did he interview you individually?
10 A. Individually? You mean like
11 without anybody else in the room?
12 Q. Well, when I say individually,
13 without Mr. Ramsey being present.
14 A. I believe so.
15 Q. That's your recollection?
16 A. Yes. I can't remember exactly.
17 I mean, we have been with him, you know,
18 more than once. So --
19 Q. I am talking about back in
20 January of 1997.
21 MR. WOOD: Did you know that
22 Mr. Douglas had been involved in January of
23 1997?
24 MR. KANE: I knew he was, but I
25 was never given access to him until probably

1 January of 1999.
2 MR. WOOD: Is that --
3 MR. KANE: I never got access to
4 him until January of 1999. I asked.
5 CHIEF BECKNER: So that's new
6 information.
7 MR. WOOD: What is new
8 information, that he got access to him in
9 January of 1999?
10 MR. KANE: I got to ask him
11 questions in January of 1999.
12 MR. WOOD: What does that have to
13 do with asking her questions?
14 MR. KANE: Here we go again.
15 Okay. Let's move on. I don't want to sit
16 and debate this all day. I'll move on and
17 note your objection.
18 MR. WOOD: Thank you.

Another useless line of questioning stopped.

But Kane doesn't give up.

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Nov-11-03, 11:26 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Patsy in Atlanta - 17"
In response to message #0
   Kane's real point is that if the Ramseys truly believed an intruder killed their daughter, they would not have let Burke out of their sight. Since they did allow him to return to school, Kane and LE thought this reinforced what they themselves thought happened the night of the murder: one or the other parent killed JonBenet. Thus, the parents knew Burke was safe.

In other words, Kane was still trying to pin the murder on the parents. He went to Atlanta with no other intention. He was not about to discuss newly developed evidence with the prime suspects. Kane had no intention of sharing information nor of brainstorming.

His Great Atlanta Fishing Caper was a bust.


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Nov-11-03, 11:32 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Patsy in Atlanta - 17"
In response to message #3
19 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Okay. The
20 JonBenet Ramsey Foundation, is that still in
21 existence?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Does it have any money in it?
24 A. A little.
25 Q. What is the most it has had in

1 it since it was started? Do you know?
2 A. I don't know.
3 Q. Do you have any idea?
4 A. Not really. I don't keep the
5 books.
6 Q. Have you ever looked at the books
7 of the Foundation or looked at any kind of a
8 financial statement about it?
9 A. I don't know that I have. I
10 don't think so.
11 Q. Have you ever conducted any kind
12 of efforts to raise money for the Foundation?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Has the Foundation, to your
15 knowledge, ever spent any money on any of
16 the things that the purpose of it, you know,
17 is stated --
18 MR. WOOD: Other than what she
19 told you about back in June of 1998?
20 MR. KANE: I never asked anything
21 in June of 1998.
22 MR. WOOD: Are you representing
23 to me that the Foundation was never discussed
24 in June of 1998?
25 MR. KANE: I don't know if it

1 was or not. I don't think it was.
2 MR. WOOD: Why don't you find
3 that out, and then we will decide whether to
4 answer it.
5 THE WITNESS: I think I --
6 MR. WOOD: Wait. He's going to
7 find out whether he discussed it or not.
8 MR. KANE: Okay. Here's
9 another --
10 MR. WOOD: I personally am
11 getting disgusted that we are talking about
12 the finances of the JonBenet Ramsey
13 Foundation when we are supposed to be talking
14 about information about the death of the
15 child. I just am getting to the point where
16 maybe I had enough.
17 Do you want to ask something to
18 move this investigation forward or do you
19 want --
20 MR. KANE: I feel this is moving
21 it forward.
22 MR. WOOD: I am sure you do,
23 sir.
24 MR. KANE: You know what, we are
25 the only law enforcement agency that has the

1 authority to --
2 MR. WOOD: You are still a law
3 enforcement agent?
4 MR. KANE: I am under contract
5 with the Boulder D.A.'s office.
6 MR. WOOD: Do you have a copy of
7 that contract?
8 Are you being paid by the hour
9 for your time here or are you doing it pro
10 bono?
11 MR. KANE: No. I'm being paid.
12 I am being paid to be here.
13 Q. (By Mr. Kane) What, to your
14 knowledge, if any, money was spent for any
15 purposes that the Foundation was being set up
16 to advance?
17 MR. WOOD: This is your last
18 question on the Foundation unless you can
19 relate it to who murdered the child. I am
20 going to draw the line.
21 THE WITNESS: There have been
22 gifts donated if that's what you are asking.
23 Q. (By Mr. Kane) No, I'm not asking
24 about donations. I am asking about money
25 going out.

1 A. That is what I am saying. There
2 have been gifts given to non-profits.
3 Q. Do you know what those are?
4 MR. WOOD: Didn't I just say that
5 we need to move on to another subject? I
6 think that --
7 THE WITNESS: I do know some of
8 them.
9 MR. WOOD: Can you go on to
10 something that will help us figure out who
11 killed the child?
12 MR. KANE: Lin, how do you, let
13 me ask you then, will you please define --
14 MR. WOOD: I mean, I'm so
15 disgusted at what you are doing, I am not
16 going to define anything for you, Mr. Kane.
17 MR. KANE: Well, then I have no
18 idea of whether any questions --
19 MR. WOOD: I don't think you have
20 any idea what is a relevant question in a
21 murder investigation.
22 MR. KANE: Now you're --
23 MR. WOOD: I just think I'm
24 just tired.
25 MR. KANE: I think you are right.

1 MR. WOOD: It's been a long day
2 and I've had to listen to a lot of back and
3 forth. It's five minutes to 5:00. Maybe
4 I'm just wearing down. But, you know, why
5 don't we just close it up --
6 CHIEF BECKNER: Just keep going.
7 MR. WOOD: Why don't we close it
8 down for the day. 5:00 was my kind of cut
9 off time anyway. I don't know about you
10 all, but I am pretty tired.
11 MR. KANE: I can go on all
12 night.
13 MR. WOOD: Mr. Kane, that
14 doesn't -- I don't want to -- you may be
15 Superman, but I'm not.
16 MR. KANE: So are you saying you
17 want to stop it? Obviously --
18 MR. WOOD: No, I mean, I'm
19 just --
20 MR. KANE: Well, then tell me, do
21 you want to stop it or keep going?
22 MR. WOOD: My goal coming in was
23 to go to 5:00, and it's five minutes to
24 5:00.
25 MR. KANE: Okay. Five more

1 minutes.
2 Q. (By Mr. Kane) All right. Since
3 I can't ask my questions about the
4 Foundation, I'll move on to something else.

The great Kane was not interested in discussing leads, suspects and evidence - - he wanted to know about Burke's security, about John Douglas' techniques and about the foundation.... what a waste of time.

Ane we were home hoping something would be accomplished. I keep coming back to that - - we had hope - shouldn't have. Glad Kane is off case now. Hope it stays that way. He was a real jerk.

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Nov-11-03, 11:41 PM (EST)
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6. "The end of the first day"
In response to message #5
2 Q. (By Mr. Kane) All right. Since
3 I can't ask my questions about the
4 Foundation, I'll move on to something else.
5 When you said in your book and
6 you said recently in interviews that the
7 reason, I don't know the specific page, but
8 let me ask you.
9 MR. WOOD: Let's try to find one.
10 Q. (By Mr. Kane) The reason that
11 you went on CNN in January of 1997 was
12 because Fleet White insisted --
13 MR. WOOD: Let's find that now.
14 MR. KANE: I mean, is it --
15 MR. WOOD: No, no, Patsy, please
16 wait. You've got something in the book or
17 some interview, please let us see it, put it
18 in context.
19 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Let me ask you
20 this way, did you say that in your book?
21 MR. WOOD: No. You already
22 represented it's in the book and you're
23 coming from there. So let's just find it in
24 the book and let her look at it in context.
25 MR. KANE: Okay. I will find

1 it. I will find it.
2 MS. HARMER: It is around 45, 44.
3 Around 45, 44.
4 MR. KANE: Thank you.
5 Q. (By Mr. Kane) All right. Mr.
6 Ramsey's statement on page 43.
7 MR. WOOD: Hold on. We found
8 it. Let me just take a look at it.
9 Okay. We are with you.
10 Q. (By Mr. Kane) This was obviously
11 Mr. Ramsey stating this in the book, the
12 last paragraph on page 43, but was that your
13 understanding too? Is that why you went to
14 see him, partially because Fleet had
15 insisted?
16 A. That was a large part of it.
17 Q. Okay. Now, that was January the
18 1st of 1997; is that correct? It was the
19 day after the funeral.
20 A. Was it? Okay. I don't remember
21 what day it was.
22 Q. All right. And this, you
23 described, in that same chapter, that same
24 page, about confrontations you had with
25 Fleet.

1 MR. WOOD: What page are you
2 talking about now?
3 MR. KANE: This whole, that's the
4 whole chapter.
5 MR. WOOD: The chapter Facing the
6 Cameras?
7 MR. KANE: Yes. I mean, the two
8 paragraphs before that, after Fleet arrived
9 in Atlanta, he kept arguing that we didn't
10 need lawyers to defend us. The solution was
11 to go on national television and tell our
12 story.
13 MR. WOOD: Okay.
14 MR. KANE: There is a point in
15 here, and if you are going to make me tell
16 you the exact spot, I will find it for
17 you where you say.
18 MR. WOOD: We want to be fair.
19 MR. KANE: -- Fleet got into --
20 or you got a phone call from Mr. Ramsey's
21 brother Jeff.
22 MR. WOOD: What page are you on?
23 MR. KANE: I don't have the page.
24 MR. WOOD: Well, you have to --
25 MR. KANE: All right. All right.

1 I am not going to ask the question.
2 MR. WOOD: I don't mind her
3 answering if you just help us.
4 THE WITNESS: Well, I mean, I
5 remember --
6 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You remember the
7 whole thing? Okay, outside of the book --
8 MR. WOOD: I want to put it
9 in --
10 MR. KANE: All right. I'll close
11 the book. I won't --
12 MR. WOOD: I do want to see what
13 you're talking about in the book.
14 THE WITNESS: There is someplace
15 where John talks about with you know
16 Fleet --
17 MR. WOOD: Jane, do you know?
18 MS. HARMER: I believe she made a
19 statement today in this interview prior about
20 this situation.
21 MR. KANE: There have been a
22 bunch of statements. I am not going to
23 quote the book.
24 MR. WOOD: But you started the
25 book and you leave it dangling about the

1 book, and I want you to help me find in the
2 book what you're talking about.
3 MR. KANE: It is my question
4 though. It is my question.
5 MR. WOOD: And it's not my
6 witness.
7 MR. KANE: I am withdrawing that
8 part of the --
9 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Isn't it not true,
10 Mrs. Ramsey, that Fleet White, according to
11 John's brother, that Fleet and he got into
12 some kind of argument and you got a phone
13 call at your mother's house that Fleet was
14 on his way over?
15 MR. WOOD: Hold on. The reason
16 I am asking for the book here is you all
17 asked about that, haven't you? And I
18 thought we were going to have some new
19 information in the book that would go back
20 over that.
21 MR. KANE: It is repeated in the
22 book.
23 MR. WOOD: Then what is the new
24 information? I mean, what's the point of
25 having her restate it?

1 MR. KANE: Are you saying we are
2 quitting at 5:00?
3 MR. WOOD: I know I am pretty
4 tired. I know you are not. Guys, what
5 time is it, what's Colorado time right now?
7 MR. WOOD: Well, no wonder I am
8 the only one tired. I am in Georgia time.
9 MR. KANE: I live in the east.
10 MR. WOOD: You already told me
11 you can go all night. I already told you I
12 can't keep up with that.
13 CHIEF BECKNER: How much more do
14 we have?
15 MR. KANE: Lots and lots of
16 stuff.
17 MR. WOOD: Well, we might as well
18 come back.
19 CHIEF BECKNER: Do you have an
20 accurate --
21 MR. WOOD: Let's kick it off
22 tomorrow at 9:00.
23 MR. LEVIN: Your clients will
24 both be available tomorrow?
25 MR. WOOD: That was our

1 agreement. We will live up to our
2 agreement.
3 MR. KANE: Okay.
4 (Whereupon, the videotaped
5 interview of PATSY RAMSEY was continued to
6 August 29, 2000.)

The Ramseys were interviewed going in to these interviews - they said they hoped to sit with K&C and brainstorm and accomplish something. By the end of the first day, I feel sure they knew that wasn't going to happen.

Just reading this I want to lash out at Kane - he was a jerk - he was simply maddening and I honestly think he should have been asked to leave long before this point - by Beckner!

But he was paid to be there, he led the group and he made a bloody mess of it. Nothing was getting accomplished. Kane was looking for something to happen so he could go out and bad mouth the Ramseys - it is obvious - but he isn't catching that fish. Lin is getting upset for good reason - and doing a good job keeping things straight. Beckner is being a wimp.

And JonBenét's killer isn't a whisper in the room.

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Charter Member
1433 posts
Nov-12-03, 00:30 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Maikai Click to send private message to Maikai Click to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "IMO, I think the Ramseys were"
In response to message #6
   abandoned by the police after JBR's body was found. How idiotic is it to tell them to check into a hotel (while the police figured out what the h#ll they had on their hands)? The Ramseys had no idea what they were suppose to do, not to mention dealing with the shock and trauma of everything they experienced. Why weren't the police involved in security for Burke? Particularly considering the notoriety of the case? Why did the Ramseys have to consult with a profiler on the security issues? Why weren't the police helping in that area? Or at least consulting other experts?

You'd think the police would have wanted to hang around the school, just in case the killer was nearby observing. John Douglas's logic makes sense...and if not the perp, the crazies that might want to make a name for themselves? If the Ramseys were so evil, why would all of these mothers volunteer their time to help out at the school?

Kane is a jerk, IMO. I wonder how much he charged for this wasted trip?

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Charter Member
1767 posts
Nov-12-03, 05:46 AM (EST)
Click to EMail clem Click to send private message to clem Click to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #7
   6 MR. WOOD:
8 Are you being paid by the hour
9 for your time here or are you doing it pro
10 bono?

I wonder if Mr. Wood was being paid by the hour for his time there or was he doing it pro bono.

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Charter Member
13618 posts
Nov-12-03, 08:40 AM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to send private message to jameson Click to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #8
   I honestly don't know what Lin Wood got paid for that day - but I know the taxpayers didn't pay for it.

Did we need to send SEVEN people from Colorado and Pennsylvania to Atlanta for 2 days for THIS?

You and I see things differently.

I would say the Ramseys got their money's worth, no matter what it cost. I think the taxpayers got ripped off. Plane fares, hotel rooms, meals and wages - - for what?

If they had shown photos and asked questions about this evidence, that suspect... if they had gotten just a bit closer to the answer... but they spent more time bickering and ego-stroking.... sorry - I just feel sick about what happened there - - and I can see why Beckner and all didn't want this public.

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Charter Member
1767 posts
Nov-12-03, 02:01 PM (EST)
Click to EMail clem Click to send private message to clem Click to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #9
   You and I see things differently. Yes, different points of view. POV, thanks.

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Member since Jul-4-03
663 posts
Nov-12-03, 02:59 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Rainsong Click to send private message to Rainsong Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
11. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #10
   Four grand, according to one article on the internet. Can't remember--and can't seem to find it. However!!!, I did find this article about the 2000 interviews:

Excerpt: Although Wood likened the Ramsey interviewers to a "lion with its mouth open, ready to bite off their heads," he said he hoped that law enforcement is serious about its pledge to follow up on other leads in the case.

Beckner recently said police are revisiting a case that occurred in September 1997 to see if there is any connection to JonBenet's murder . In that case, an intruder sexually assaulted a 14-year-old girl after allegedly hiding in the girl's Boulder home for hours.

So why no questions in reference to the facts of this other case?

Why no questions such as--when you unpacked your belongings from your Boulder home, did you notice anything out of place, missing, added? Did you find anything that did NOT belong to you? Have you, in the intervening years, remembered anything about JonBenet's last day that you have not shared with us? Do you recall seeing anyone out of the ordinary or a stranger to your neighborhood prior to the murder of your daughter? Did you ever get threatening mail, phone calls, email? Has anything, however small, surfaced in your memory since that time?

Tons of questions.


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1767 posts
Nov-12-03, 03:32 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #11
   Excerpt: Although Wood likened the Ramsey interviewers to a "lion with its mouth open, ready to bite off their heads," ...

I have not detected that from the transcripts I've read posted here. I don't know what the tape may sound like. I do detect their frustration with Wood and his with them.

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13618 posts
Nov-12-03, 10:39 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to send private message to jameson Click to add this user to your buddy list  
13. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #12
   Picture this - 7 people from the BPD fly in - 6 men and one woman - they sit on three sides of a table - on the other side is Patsy, Lin and the stenographer.... Two cameras in the room - one from an end of the table filming so Patsy is on the left and Beckner straight ahead.... the other camera was behind Kane doing a full face of Patsy.

A bit imposing, I would say.

The Ramseys agreed to meet to answer questions but there was also supposed to be a period of sharing - brainstorming... didn't happen.

I would like to point out to the BORG and others that while LE did try to suggest the fibers on JBR's genitals were from John's shirt - they were not willing to show any document saying the lab had come to that determination.

And they did not - at ALL - say there was evidence of prior sexual abuse - - just didn't happen - - and if they had any evidence of that you can bet they would have shared THAT.

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Member since Jul-4-03
663 posts
Nov-12-03, 10:46 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Rainsong Click to send private message to Rainsong Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
14. "RE: IMO"
In response to message #13
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-03 AT 10:49 PM (EST)
IF they had proof the fibers were from John's shirt AND that there had been proof of prior sexual assault, John Ramsey would have been arrested.


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