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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
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Oct-15-03, 01:00 PM (EST)
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"Evidence Handling Defended"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-03 AT 10:30 PM (EST) by jameson (admin)
 

Prosecutors contend a single hair found attached to pliers in Scott Peterson's boat broke in an evidence package and was not mishandled by investigators, according to documents filed in court Tuesday.


The Modesto Bee has requested that we not republished their stories in their entirety on the forum.


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momof6moderator
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Oct-15-03, 04:31 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Evidence Handling Defended"
In response to message #0
 
   "Two dogs followed a track that led from a "known location" -- apparently the Petersons' Covena Avenue home -- to San Francisco Bay , according to the prosecutors' argument. "


From the home, to the bay? I have not heard that yet!

The dogs got Laci's scent and followed it to the bay...

Hmmmm... if that is true then it would kill those thoughts that someone else did it and then waited and planted Laci in the bay at a later date after they found out where Scott Peterson had been. (In order to frame him)


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DragonFly2
Member since Jun-23-03
278 posts
Oct-16-03, 12:04 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Evidence Handling Defended"
In response to message #1
 
   Wow- that is amazing...and if it's true, you're right, momof6- that puts a BIG dent in the "frame Scott Peterson" theories. Especially since NOBODY, no not anyone, knew Scott was going to go fishing that day- Scott himself says he decided on impulse.

No wonder Geragos is trying to get that evidence eliminated. That's the primary job of a defense lawyer- pinpoint the most damning evidence and get it barred from being used by the prosecution.

The dogs' tracking is extremely damning- as is the hair in pliers on the boat.


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Sam
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Oct-16-03, 12:59 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Evidence Handling Defended"
In response to message #4
 
   I may be wrong but I think the tracking dogs picked up Laci sent and followed it down the drive way. Then picked it up again at the bay.


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Isabella
Member since Jun-5-03
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Oct-16-03, 01:05 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Evidence Handling Defended"
In response to message #5
 
   I was telling my husband last night about this new leak about the dogs following Laci's scent from Modesto to the Bay.

He said in no uncertain terms, there is no way possible a dog could track someone's scent that far. He believes once a person is in a vehicle the scent is lost. He bases this on the fact that he is a big hunter, and he has several times gone hunting with dogs to catch coyote (which are plentiful in my area). He said the dogs lose the scent so fast.

He says not to believe this, there is no way it could be true.

So, I think Sam could be right, and it sounds more plausible, that they picked up her scent at her home, and then again at the Bay.


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LadyBugmoderator
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Oct-16-03, 03:04 PM (EST)
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7. "Gas Traffic Exhaust Rubber _Long Way To"
In response to message #6
 
   From Covena Ave,Modesto to the bay area is a long way. Heavey traffic with heavier traffic over the Holidays. I tend to agree with Isobella's husband.

If tracking is so easy then why haven't we found the thousands of missing children and adults?
Fleck the dog handler and his animals must be genius or just another flappin' mouth.

As for the scent of Laci picked up at the bay, I would expect that be possible since Laci apparently rode in Scott's pickup on many occasions and we know the pickup was at the bay on December 24,2002, according to Scott and witnesses.



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Evening2
Member since Jul-7-03
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Oct-17-03, 08:19 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Gas Traffic Exhaust Rubber _Long Way"
In response to message #7
 
   LB, it also seems likely her scent would be picked up at the bay because that IS where her body was disposed of.


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LadyBugmoderator
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Oct-17-03, 11:50 PM (EST)
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9. "Possible"
In response to message #8
 
   Evening2, but it doesn't seem possible because the cadavar SAR didn't find Laci or the baby, private citizens did, long after the scent would have dissipated, especially since the bodies surfaced in April (?). Therefor what we have been lead to believe is the scent was in the boat and the pickup truck. Now we learn Laci's scent was not in the boat. The boat is only what (?), 14 ft and surely if she had been in the boat on December 24th the smart handler with 20 years experience ( Fleck ) or any other experienced handlers and well trained animals would have certainly made note.

Also Fleck's 'leapfrog' technique couldn't, wouldn't, leap from Modesto to the bay area. There is far too much geography to cover, rivers, sideroads, trees, private property which sometimes takes a search for the owner and possibly a court order.

* Ref: Dena Raley, missing from Modesto for years and still can not obtain a search warrant or trespass on private property where she may be. The story made headlines when Dena's family decided they would do thier own search...but they were stopped in thier tracks!


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momof6moderator
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Oct-22-03, 04:29 PM (EST)
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10. "Can they detect if person was in vehicle"
In response to message #9
 
   http://www.tcsar.org/k9_teams.asp

Quotes from the site:


"The dogs detect the human scent as it rises through and above the surface. By locating the subjects scent, divers are aided in search and recovery efforts and are subjected to fewer hazards. Water currents, air currents, temperature, and the contour of the bottom all have an effect on the location of scent at the surface."


"Tracking teams can, under certain conditions, follow the path of a subject even though the subject is in a vehicle.



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LadyBugmoderator
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Oct-22-03, 05:43 PM (EST)
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11. "80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #10
 
   That is approximately the distance.
Mom6 are you saying that cadavar dogs can scent a body hundreds of feet down at the bottom in salt water? Remember the sludge boats, tug boats and freighters go through that channel and the ugly odor of the bay, diesel oil, smoke and every other bit of garbage. It's deep water, if dog can scent a body in the bay it must be Fleck's 'smart dog'.

As for scenting a body from a traveling vehicle is possible, however we are talking about the same distance from Modesto to the Berkley marina ( 80 miles m/l ) and to get there through heavy highwya traffic, plus Holiday ( this is not a back road) with similar odors as those above plus the smell of rubber of the tires. That's a smart dog Fleck has.


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momof6moderator
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Oct-22-03, 09:05 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: 80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #11
 
   All I am saying is what I have researched. The studies or documents say that it can be possible.

I personally do not have any idea whether it is possible or not, that is why I offered the research that I could find.

Do I think it is possible? Yes, I do. It would depend on currents, water temp and so on, according to what I have read through research. Conditions have to be favorable, and according to what they are reporting, the dog got a scent above the water in a boat. Sonar picked up something that they referred to as Laci under the water, but conditions were not favorable enough for a diver to go down and retrieve what sonar and the dog hit on.


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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
126 posts
Oct-22-03, 11:43 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: 80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #12
 
   I have an friend that is an FBI agent. I live in Los Angeles. He tells me that the dogs that they work with can detect 1 ounce of cocaine within 30 pounds of coffee.

I am told that dogs can separate scents. One from another. Coffee from Cocaine. Laci's scent from rubber. Laci's scent from salt water. Laci's scent from banana peels tossed out of a car.

I do not train dogs, nor do I attest to know what they are capable of, but I do know what I read, and what they have accomplished. It does seem crazy that they may have done this, but from what I have read and heard, it does seem very possible.

JMO.

Something lead the searchers to the bay. Something lead them to a place not far from where her and Conners body washed up. Does anyone have any other idea what? Do you think it was a lucky guess??


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momof6moderator
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Oct-23-03, 07:10 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: 80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #13
 
   I think that it is very possible from all that I have read about these dogs. I think that maybe the dog did grab Laci's scent from the water, and that they did believe that it was Laci on Sonar, but they just couldn't do anything at that time.


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rosario_c
Member since Jul-7-03
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Oct-23-03, 09:11 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: 80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #14
 
   momof6 - I personally think you've done a great job of researching and posting links. thanks so much!


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Sam
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Oct-23-03, 09:46 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: 80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #15
 
   First there is a big difference between cadaver dogs and tracking dogs.
Tracking dogs are trained on humane scent and are usually also trained as attack dogs. You see the K-9's on police shows.
Cadaver dogs are trained to hit on methane gas and rotting decomposeing flesh and body parts.
Death has it's own smell. Trainers use a substance that smells like all the above. It's the smell of death and dogs can hit on bodies under the water. I don't know anything about distances but I know the dogs properly trained are good.


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LadyBugmoderator
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Nov-06-03, 00:06 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: 80 Miles Plus ?"
In response to message #16
 
   Yes Sam and wouldn't LE have included cadavar dogs to the bay? Certainly they weren't searching for Laci to be alive when they did those searches. As for searching the bay area Scott told them he had been to the bay on the fishing trip and those persons closest to the victim are held immediately under the umbrella. He not only told LE, but that fact was announced almost immediately on national TV.


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