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jamesonadmin
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Mar-09-03, 10:05 AM (EST)
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"The Skull fracture"
 
   On another forum, MIBRO did a lot of research on the skull fracure which is, actually, new to the forums. I want to share that with all of you.

MIBRO, if you are upset by this, please email me and I will change the post...

http://www.bartleby.com/107/18.html

THE STRENGTH OF BONE COMPARED WITH OTHER MATERIALS

The measurements are for:
Weight (Pounds per square foot)
Tension (per square foot)
Compression (per square foot)
Shear (per square foot)

Substance Medium steel
Weight 490
Tension 65,000
Compression 60,000
Shear 40,000

Substance Granite
Weight 170
Tension 1,500
Compression 15,000
Shear 2,000

Substance White Oak
Weight 46
Tension 12,500
Compression 7,000
Shear 4,000

Substance Compact bone (varies)
Weight from 119 to ?
Tension 13,200-17,700
Compression 18,000-24,000
Shear 11,800-7,150

MIBRO explains it this way:

I hope the table that shows the strength of bone compared to other materials posts. The table shows that it takes 18,000 pounds (yes, gls, that’s 9 tons) per square inch to cause bone compression. A conservative estimation of 100 Mpa’s per square meter was what I posted (that’s 14,503 pounds per square inch).

JonBenet’s weight (mass) at 45 lbs., together with the distance she would fall (height of 47 inches), and the power of her pulling away from someone (velocity)and falling (distance) is not great enough to create the force required to cause this injury. There is not enough mass, velocity or distance to mathematically meet the requirements of 14-18,000 pounds of pressure required to compress the skull.

Slamming JonBenet into a surface would require considerable power (velocity) to cause this injury. The physics to be considered do not add up mathematically.

A fall from a greater height (which would help solve the mathematical problem) would probably have caused other injuries (like a broken neck).

It is much more likely that a weapon was used with great force and that the weapon’s description would match the measurements of the fracture. Its edge should “match” (be less than) the width of the displaced skull fragment (1.75 x 0.5 inches).


MIBRO notes hir is not an expert - but the research sure makes one wonder!


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The Skull fracture [View All], jamesonadmin, 10:05 AM, Mar-09-03, (0)  
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Mikiemoderator
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Mar-09-03, 05:22 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: The Skull fracture"
In response to message #0
 
   I disagree. The weapon should match the hemmoraged area 7 inches by 4 inches, not the small broken piece area.


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jamesonadmin
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Mar-09-03, 05:49 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: The Skull fracture"
In response to message #1
 
  

Maybe the baseball bat or flashlight - I think more likely a golf club or that fireplace tool - - her hair could have been the cushion that prevented the skin tearing.


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BraveHeart
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Mar-09-03, 06:56 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: The Skull fracture"
In response to message #2
 
   Dave did a lot of calculations on this very subject some time back. He is a physics person. He concluded that it would take a greater force than Patsy was capable of, swinging just about anything, to inflict this blow. And she is right about falling. JB would have had to fall about 15 feet landing on her head to cause that type of wound which, of course, would have broken her neck as well.

This led to Dave's famous coconut experiments, as their shell approximate the strength of a skull. He was able to punch a small hole in one, using the butt end of a mag lite flashlight, and a lot of force.

All this is in the archives somewhere but it proves to me that the head trauma was no accident. Whoever hit her intended to kill her. I think to guarantee that she was dead, or would die, given that some persons survive strangulation, albeit in a vegetative state.

And I have to respectfully disagree with Mikie about the size of the weapon in relation to the size of the hemorrage/bruising.


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DonBradley
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Mar-09-03, 08:51 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: The Skull fracture"
In response to message #3
 
   Researchers often use goat skulls.

I too would disagree with the 'object's surface area equal to hemoraghe area' and would say it would more approximate the dislodged area.

One often suggested object is the maglite but another one that is often suggested is a collapsible baton such as used by police and which would be quite possibly posessed by someone who was also enamored of stun guns. Such collapsible batons usually look like thick radio airials when the baton has been flipped so as to extend it to its full length. The extreme end of the baton would quite possibly be of the appropriate dimensions to inflict the wound described in the autopsy report.

All of this is indeed speculative, there is very little research on human skulls for obvious reasons. (Those darned bioethicists again)! And much of the research that does exist is patently absurd but oft quoted in various child abuse/shaken-baby syndrome cases.


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Mikiemoderator
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Mar-09-03, 10:17 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: The Skull fracture"
In response to message #4
 
   Consider that when a cylindrical object intersects a sphere the resistance increases as the area of penetration grows. The result is an elongated elipse in the skull even though the weapon is cylindrical. The shape of the broken part of the skull will be small and not related to the length of the weapon but rather to the diameter. The smaller the diameter of the cylinder the longer the elipse. So the long 7x4 inch bruised area shows it was not a localized puncture like you might get from a hammerlike object, but rather a failure caused by a long cylindrical object.


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DonBradley
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Mar-10-03, 12:50 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: The Skull fracture"
In response to message #0
 
   I'd like to juxtapose the skull fracture with what I shall tactfully and somewhat delicately refer to as "other activities" that were performed that night.

There have been allegations that such 'other activities' were merely staging performed by someone who was emotionally conflicted over the acts that were taking place. Now I have never believed that either of the parents did any such things that night or any other time, but I would like to contrast the absolutely indisputable high-impact blow to the skull with the rather minimalist nature of the 'other activities'. If the molestation was rather minimalist in comparison to what it could have been and certainly in comparison to the skull-crushing blow, is there significance to the differences?


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Maikai
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Mar-11-03, 02:10 AM (EST)
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7. "Yes, Don..."
In response to message #6
 
   It's not the first time a psycho does overkill...with the last brutality a blow to the head. My guess is something enraged him...perhaps JBR not cooperating like he thought she should. I think the strangulation showed great strength, and anger, too....and this guy is a crazed sadist that was a substance abuser.


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Margoo
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Apr-07-03, 04:06 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Yes, Don..."
In response to message #7
 
   Hmmm, I'm thinking about the police baton as the weapon used to cause the skull fracture. I'm also wondering about other "police" connections to this case -

HiTec boot
"scanned for electronic devices"
"we are familiar with Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics" (note the capital L in Law enforcement - indicating importance of Law enforcement??)
"you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities"
"don't think that killing will be difficult"
Ask for ridiculous amount of ransom so that FBI will immediately think something ain't right
Massive undermining of the case by "fellow" law enforcement officers.
Encourage focus on the parents and remain focused on the parents (the starting point of any investigation of the murder of a family member).
Create a secondary focal point (the RN) to muddy the waters
Knowledge of knots
Knowledge of forensic evidence (minimize it)
Use items from the home to make it look like a parent did it
Wrap child in blanket to make it look like parent did it
Tie victim's hands together - like handcuffs
Set screensaver to Ramseys are the Killas

Stretching it, huh?


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Mikiemoderator
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Apr-07-03, 10:23 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Yes, Don..."
In response to message #8
 
   Add to that the absolute refusal by BPD to consider an intruder, and Arndt knowing who the killer was on day one, and you could be getting close.


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-03, 01:29 PM (EST)
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10. "Skulls and Badges"
In response to message #0
 
   It is perhaps inevitable that any discussion of 'thick skulls' wil lead to a discussion of 'law enforcement personnel'.

However, I consider it highly unlikely that the BPD is knowingly sheltering a suspect; it is far more likely that they are simply the inept and incompetent dolts that they appear to be.

Lack of forensic clues at the crime scene does not necessarily imply any sort of knowledge of forensics on the part of the perpetrator or that the perpetrator exercised even the slightest precautions against leaving evidence.


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Mikiemoderator
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Apr-07-03, 01:55 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Skulls and Badges"
In response to message #10
 
   It must be some sort of statistical improbability that all the inept and incompetent dolts end up in the same place?


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Margoo
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Apr-07-03, 02:04 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Skulls and Badges"
In response to message #11
 
   Actually, Mikie and Don, there seems to have been one or two that were trying to get outside the box that their leader - Mr. Eller - was trying to confine them in and that his buddy, Steve, was perpetuating. It appears that not ALL of the detectives were being sucked in and brainwashed, but I can well imagine the peer pressure that was being exerted.


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-03, 02:15 PM (EST)
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14. "Of Peers and Pensions..."
In response to message #12
 
   >Actually there seems to have been one or two that were trying to get outside the
>box that their leader was trying to confine them in
>but I can well imagine the peer pressure that was being exerted.

It is true that many in LE and legal circles in Colorado were aghast at what was happening, but most of their comments and activities were "on the qt".

DAHunter transferred all the pro-Ramsey people off the case as the grand jury loomed on the horizon, the BPD came down real hard on dissenters and even the El Dorado sheriff made his comments in private.

DAHunter ignored Lou Smit until Lou Smit simply got tired of that brick wall and realized he could no longer be a part of what was going on. Lou Smit was retired. He had the luxury of leaving. Others had careers at stake and families that had gotten into the habit of three squares a day.

Dissenters soon learned there was no way out of the box.


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-03, 02:07 PM (EST)
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13. "Alas, no."
In response to message #11
 
   What is exceptional in this situation is the 'beauty pageant' and the media use of the dolled-up shots and video tapes.

Therefore the incompetent dolts are merely highlited in Boulder, but they exist elsewhere too.

Most police agencies are not measured against crime statistics and rarely is crime related to police activities anyway.

There is so little oversight of police investigative performance or patrol effectiveness that it is a joke to talk about 'effectiveness'.

Is Boulder exceptional? Their Chamber of Commerce would say 'yes'.
But would you?


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DonBradley
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Apr-07-03, 05:42 PM (EST)
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15. "Overkill ?"
In response to message #0
 
   Elsewhere I have brought out the point that the use of a .45 calibre bullet is not overkill merely because a .22 calibre bullet would have also been sufficient.

One massive blow is not necessarily overkill. A dozen such blows would clearly be overkill indicate rage, frenzy and contempt.

The injury was severe, the blow was probably unnecessary due to the effects of the strangulation, but it was not necessarily 'overkill'.


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Maikai
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Apr-07-03, 09:21 PM (EST)
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16. "There's been other perps"
In response to message #15
 
   that have strangled, and then struck a blow to the head. I don't know why.....perhaps the frenzy they're in.....but IMO, it's rage....and overkill. At some point the perp decided to kill JBR--perhaps because his plan was unravelling, and she could identify him. She may not have known him, but may have seen his face.


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