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Conferences JonBenét Ramsey current threads Topic #59
Reading Topic #59
jamesonadmin
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Feb-15-02, 03:17 PM (EST)
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"On the fibers"
 
   Concerning the red fibers.

There were red fibers found in the paint tray. They could be from Patsy's jacket.

The official lab report does NOT say that the red fibers were from Patsy's jacket and ONLY her jacket. The fibers are not unique enough to say that. They are simply red fibers that MAY be from that jacket.

If they WERE from her jacket, that is perfectly understandable. Clothes shed threads here and there and she used the paint tray on a regular basis - no surprise the fibers might be there.

Those fibers are similar or match the fibers on the tape that was on the body.

Anyone who handled those paint brushes, broke one to make a handle for a garotte, could easily have picked up those fibers and transferred the fibers to the tape.


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peev
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Feb-17-02, 12:04 PM (EST)
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1. "Fibers"
In response to message #0
 
   They are unique, relatively speaking. Probably several jackets were made of the same fiber - but the chances of another person with the same jacket from the same dye lot are slim to none.

Fiber Comparison

There are four types of fibers. These are


Animal - e.g. wool


Vegetable - e.g. cotton


Mineral - e.g. asbestos


Man-made or synthetic - acrylics, nylon and polyester


The main characteristic of a fiber used for comparison is color type, diameter, coarseness, the presence of additives and machine marks made during production, changes to the fiber due to the sun or bleaching, or discoloration and cross sectional shape.


The most important characteristic for forensic investigators is the color of the fiber. The color is produced by different dyes, and can be determined by an instrument called a microspectrophotometer, which produces a "fingerprint" of the color based on the absorption of light. Identical color fingerprints have a good chance of being the same fibers.

Most comparisons of fibers are done on either a compound microscope or a comparison microscope. Every characteristic that is tested for must be the same for a match to be made. This means that even if most characteristics of two fibers seem to be the same, a difference in only one property means that they can not be matched.



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peev
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Feb-17-02, 12:06 PM (EST)
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2. "correction"
In response to message #1
 
   Probably several jackets were made of the same fiber - but the chances of another person with the same jacket from the same dye lot being in the basement near the paint tray and tape that night are slim and none.


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-17-02, 12:20 PM (EST)
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3. "Point is"
In response to message #2
 
   the fibers in the paint tray probably WERE from Patsy's clothes - and why not? She owned the jacket and the paint tray - no reason for the fibers there to be considered strange or "evidence of guilt" of anything other than owning both the jacket and the paint tray.

Whoever made the garrote touched things in the paint tray and could well have carried the fibers fromthe paint tray to the cord and tape.

Furthermore, he could have carried those fibers home on his clothes - - so if anyone KNOWS who it was and has the clothes he wore that night, those clothes could tell a story. PLEASE - - if anyone has any article like that, please put it in a clean bag - new from a cleaner would be great - and contact both the authorities and Lin Wood, the Ramsey attorney at LLWood47@aol.com.

Someone out there could help solve this with an article that was in the house that night.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 01:06 PM (EST)
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4. "Point is...."
In response to message #3
 
   These four red fibres WERE consistant with Patsy's red blazer -- but by the time garments were eventually sent in to be tested..there was no way of finding out where the fibres originated; none of the items sent were the ones requested a year previously -- a very clever move, on the Ramsey part -- don't you think?

There was also Beaver hair found on the inside of the duct tape..didn't Patsy run out of the house wearing her huge fur coat??? YES...she did!

Funny how she let the intruder/stun-gunning/pedo/molester/kidnapper/murderer borrow her coat and red turtleneck to murder her child in!


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-17-02, 01:09 PM (EST)
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5. "not beaver"
In response to message #4
 
   Patsy did not own a beaver coat.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 01:24 PM (EST)
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6. "Talking of fur coats..."
In response to message #5
 
   Why on earth would ANY grief stricken, INNOCENT mum run out of her house, shielding her face with her huge fur coat???

This bemuses me -- it is strange beyond belief!

Why would she be acting this way? Who in their right mind would ever think or care about other people seeing them, etc...this wasn't just for personal privacy...this is something else...


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-17-02, 01:27 PM (EST)
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7. "You have just spent "
In response to message #6
 
   hours concerned about your baby - thinking she was kidnapped and hoping against hope that she was going to just run down the street and into the house. Then you are faced with her body - and the terrible knowledge that the child you love is never going to hug you again or call your name.

You go outside (and I don't know what kind of coat she had on or if she did hide her face) but let's just say she DID go outside and there are neighbors and media people.... exactly how is it evidence of guilt if she did cover her face?


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 01:33 PM (EST)
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8. "Weird answer..."
In response to message #7
 
   hours concerned about your baby - thinking
she was kidnapped and hoping against
hope that she was going to
just run down the street and
into the house. Then you
are faced with her body -
and the terrible knowledge that the
child you love is never going
to hug you again or call
your name.
You go outside (and I don't know
"what kind of coat she had
on or if she did hide
her face) but let's just say
she DID go outside and there
are neighbors and media people....
exactly how is it evidence of
guilt if she did cover her
face?"

These answers of yours are negotiable Jameson -- because YOU nor I know for sure that this woman was unaware that her baby wasn't already dead, and lying on that cold floor...WE do not know for sure, that she didn't leave her child there for hours whilst feigning "kidnapping-mode"...

ONLY known murderers cover up their faces in public -- maybe she was preparing herself for the public's reaction to her -- who knows, but it is still a strange and worrying move on her part...


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-17-02, 02:03 PM (EST)
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9. "really?"
In response to message #8
 
   I don't believe only murderers cover their faces. I know better.

I have, unfortunately, known more than one person who lost a loved one through such an act - - and very often perfectly innocent people are totally horrified of anyone watching their grief. I have seen innocent people shield their faces. I have helped shield them from intrusions.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 02:15 PM (EST)
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10. "I think that is different..."
In response to message #9
 
   People react in different ways, of course...we can't pigeon-hole everyone into having the same emotions or reactions -- fair is fair Jameson...

BUT -- you have to admit that this woman's behaviour has been a tad strange over the last few years...

Take for instance, that horrible recent photograph of her kneeling beside her baby's grave, with her hands around her neck!! I had a fright when I first saw it...what was she thinking of???

And as for shielding oneself from prying eyes -- fine...wear dark glasses and a huge hat if you must...but don't cover over your head with a coat...criminals do this, as they are being ushered into a police van...


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-17-02, 02:25 PM (EST)
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11. "do me a favor"
In response to message #10
 
   Write down all these tips and send them to Steve Thomas so he will know just how HE is supposed to act now that HE is the defendant.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 02:30 PM (EST)
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12. "No need..."
In response to message #11
 
   "Write down all these tips and send
them to Steve Thomas so he
will know just how HE is
supposed to act now that HE
is the defendant."

Oh -- He knows!



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BraveHeart
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Feb-17-02, 05:20 PM (EST)
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13. "ST_Beaver Hair"
In response to message #12
 
  

You meant to say *ONE* beaver hair found....didn't you? Isn't this more significant than finding several beaver hairs? Considering none were found in the house. Not another one. Paint brushes aren't made with beaver hair. Fishing flys, hat and coat trim sometimes is. It didn't come off of anything Ramsey.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 05:46 PM (EST)
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14. "Braveheart"
In response to message #13
 
   "It didn't come off of anything
Ramsey."

How do you know this Braveheart? According to them, NOTHING belonged to the Ramseys. Patsy even denied knowledge of her own paintbrush...

From Larry King Live...

STEVE:
John calls it a very skilled instrument of some sort. You admit, now, do you not, that it was your paintbrush that was used? Do you admit that?

PAT:
I don't know!

Patsy and John BOTH deny knowledge of anything asked of them...their vague answers only show that they have been coached on what to say, just in case they fluff it!!

Did Patsy have a fur coat of hers tested? -- Jameson can't possibly know what this woman has in her closets -- if she does, creeeeeeeepy!




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jamesonadmin
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Feb-17-02, 06:56 PM (EST)
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15. "paintbrushes"
In response to message #14
 
   STEVE: John calls it a very skilled instrument of some sort. You admit, now, do you not, that it was your paintbrush that was used? Do you admit that?

PATSY: I don't know!


Patsy was not shown the paintbrush to identify.

The police have not shared any of the evidence with the Ramseys. Patsy has not been shown the paintbrush and it would have been foolish of her to say she knew HER paintbrush was used when, in fact, she did NOT know.

Can you swear that the paintbrush was hers? What if I suggest to you that Patsy had been out painting with a friend and the paintbrush was inadvertantly exchanged while they were cleaning up?


In those interviews she is not asked to pretend to know the answer - - she was told to answer the questions that she KNEW the answers to.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-17-02, 07:32 PM (EST)
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16. "More on the Paintbrush..."
In response to message #15
 
   "Patsy was not shown the paintbrush
to identify."

But it came from her paint-box in the basement -- it was snapped in half to make the garotte, and slithers of the paint/or wood was found inside little JonBenet...Patsy painted -- no??? Are you saying that an intruder/stun-gunning/kidnapper was a budding artist also, and just happened to carry a paintbrush with him?

Of course she knew details -- wouldn't YOU want to know every detail about your child's murder? Wouldn't you be consumed with anger and a non-stop need for questioning?

"The police have not shared any of
the evidence with the Ramseys.
Patsy has not been shown the
paintbrush and it would have been
foolish of her to say she
knew HER paintbrush was used when,
in fact, she did NOT know."

The police never needed to share details with the Ramseys, because the Ramseys already had their team -- and they certainly had to pay heavily for this service, so of course they must have asked questions...and of course they must have known answers...

"Can you swear that the paintbrush was
hers? What if I suggest
to you that Patsy had been
out painting with a friend and
the paintbrush was inadvertantly exchanged while
they were cleaning up?"

It doesn't change the fact that a paintbrush was used as a tool in the murder of her little girl...whether it was Joan Blogg's paintbrush or not -- it was already in the house...and I am sure that Patsy knew of it's whereabouts...

"In those interviews she is not
asked to pretend to know the
answer - - she was told
to answer the questions that she
KNEW the answers to."

She was definitely coached what to say...and mainly her responses were, "I don't recall" -- or "No Sir!"

She even denies knowledge of a dark robe with maybe roses on it...these dark fibres were also found, plus the fact that the last morning photograph of herself and JonBenet, shows her in a dark robe with some sort of flower pattern on it...why the need to deny???


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BraveHeart
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Feb-18-02, 02:40 AM (EST)
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17. "BraveHeart's Angel"
In response to message #16
 
   Ok, Ok, just kidding.
Angel, you ask how I know there were no beaver hair bearing apparel at the Ramsey's house? The police searched the house, supposedly in great microscopic detail, and reported they found no beaver hairs. attached , or lying around.

This is stated in your ST's book and in PMPT. Trust me. It's a very important point. If it did not originate in the Ramsey household where did it come from? My guess is from the coat pocket of some intruder. Beaver hair usually comes from coat and hat trim and is bought in small packages by fishermen/fisherwomen who tie their own flys.


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dannyjoseph
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Feb-20-02, 04:30 PM (EST)
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20. "beaver hair"
In response to message #13
 
   Question: Can an investigator tell if a beaver hair came right off the beaver- dragged in on some person's shoes- or if the beaver hair came off an article of clothing like a fur coat or hat? Are beaver pelts treated chemically before becoming fur coats?


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Joyce
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Mar-04-02, 08:59 PM (EST)
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28. "Position of hands"
In response to message #10
 
  
>Take for instance, that horrible recent photograph
>of her kneeling beside her baby's
>grave, with her hands around her
>neck!! I had a fright when
>I first saw it...what was she
>thinking of???

I've seen many people do that. It isn't a 'guy' thing to do I don't think but I've seen women do it. I've done the same thing perhaps (I didn't see that picture). Just because someone can 'write into' a picture some other thing that was never present in someones mind, doesn't mean that it's true.


>And as for shielding oneself from prying
>eyes -- fine...wear dark glasses and
>a huge hat if you must...but
>don't cover over your head with
>a coat...criminals do this, as they
>are being ushered into a police
>van...

I don't know that she did this. However, I go with the thought of one hiding herself from others seeing her grief since I am the same way. What one does in such a time of stress could always be written to mean something else. I would say it would be MORE likely for a guilty person to NOT show any signs of grief and try to hide it.

However, I DO have a great deal of trouble imagining Patsy as having anything to do with the crime. I don't see her in that light at all. No doubt the PMPT movie slanted things enough to create a wrong 'first impression'. I missed the second half of that so it's just as well since I now know much of it was just 'Hollywood sensationalism'.

Besides which, it was winter time in Colorado. I usually dress up quite warm here (New Mexico) in the winter time.


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LovelyPigeon
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Feb-18-02, 11:49 PM (EST)
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18. "Exactly, BH!"
In response to message #0
 
   To believe that PR had a beaver coat that shed only ONE hair in the entire house is waaay beyond belief.

The BPD crime scene techs would have scotch-taped every closet in the house looking for hairs.

With no match anywhere in the house there's no way PR's fur coat could be deemed beaver.


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LovelyPigeon
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Feb-19-02, 00:05 AM (EST)
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19. "LHP and the dark flowered robe"
In response to message #0
 
   ST's Angel...I need a quote for that one, please.

The robe (if that's what it is) that PR has on in the Dec 25th photo with JBR does not have flowers on it, the best I can tell.


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LovelyPigeon
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Feb-20-02, 07:38 PM (EST)
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21. "dannyjoseph"
In response to message #19
 
   Fur pelts are treated with a variety of preservatives and dyes when they are made into garments.

It would make sense that a hair tracked in on the bottom of a shoe would have traces (at least) of dirt, mud, etc attached.

We have not been able to learn if the beaver hair that was found attached to the duct tape was a processed hair.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-23-02, 09:52 PM (EST)
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22. "For Lovely..."
In response to message #19
 
   "ST's Angel...I need a quote for that
one, please."

My pleasure Lovely.

Darnay stuck on the "robe" for quite a while - huh?

He must have known in his mind why!

From the recent Patsy Deposition...

Darnay:
"Did you ever prepare meals in a more informal way in the morning, like go down in like, say, a black housecoat with something that might have like rose color flowers on it, that
sort of thing? Ever prepare meals in the morning informally?"

The Mum:
Oh, I probably -- I don't know about the rose color robe you are talking about, but --"

Darnay:
The black robe with rose colors, or anything like that.

The Mum's lawyer:
"Or anything like that?"

Darnay:
"Or any type of clothing like that."

The Mum's lawyer:
"What do you mean when you say any clothing like -- Like a black robe with red roses, pink roses?"

Darnay:
"Linda Hoffman-Pugh once identified her as --"

The Mum's lawyer:
"Why don't you just be direct and ask her the question did she own such a robe and had she ever worn it. Go right ahead."

Darnay:
"Did you ever own a black housecoat with pink roses on it, or a black robe? I don't know if it was a housecoat or how you would describe it. I don't know how women identify these types of informal garments."

The Mum:
"I can't remember. I know I have a white one with pink roses.
may have. I can't remember. I had a lot of robes."

Well what do you know! SHE CAN'T REMEMBER!!!!!!!




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jamesonadmin
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Feb-23-02, 10:40 PM (EST)
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23. "so?"
In response to message #22
 
   five years ago she had several robes - one may have been black with flowers on it and she doesn't really remember it.

Let me tell you, with a closet as big as hers, she could have owned a dozen robes, worn one for a month solid then hung it up and forgotten it for a year!

I don't see evidence of guilt in that.

Please explain where you do.


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-23-02, 10:57 PM (EST)
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24. "I expect this is the robe"
In response to message #23
 
  


I don't know if it is or not - can't see the flowers - but I suspect this is it.

So if LHP said she had a black robe with flowers on it and Patsy can't remember.... what does that mean?

May mean Patsy owned too many robes - - not that she is a killer.


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ST's Angel
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Feb-23-02, 11:01 PM (EST)
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25. "But..."
In response to message #23
 
   Look at the last photograph on Christmas morning...

What sort of robe is this mum wearing? It is a dark robe, with some sort of flower design...no?

I have examined enlarged areas of this picture -- and there is a floral design on it...I am sure...

Why would she deny knowledge of such a robe? She knew Darnay was asking about that particular robe in the deposition -- and we have the photograph to prove it...

There were several dark fibres found on the tape...which could consist with Patsy's robe...

It just shows more inconsistencies in this case...more secrets to find out...


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ST's Angel
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Feb-23-02, 11:06 PM (EST)
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26. "Also..."
In response to message #25
 
   The grip on JonBenet's arm...and the false little smile on that angel's face...

I do not like this picture much...

I wish I knew why 911 was dialled before Christmas Day...it is not something that happens by mistake -- not with a six year old child in the house...maybe a very small naughty child...but I do not believe for one minute Jonbenet would have dialled 911 for attention...and I am sure she knew to call for danger only...

Any answers to this Jameson?


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jamesonadmin
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Feb-23-02, 11:10 PM (EST)
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27. "the robe"
In response to message #26
 
   Patsy didn't remember the robe - - so what - - it had been 5 years.

the robe was black - the fibers dark blue - the cops looked for the fibers and didn't find the source - doesn't seem it was the robe.

I don't know what your point is.

The 911 call was made by Fleet White - - no secret - totally unrelated to the crime.


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jamesonadmin
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29. "the fibers"
In response to message #27
 
   Did I mention that Priscilla had a jacket very much like Patsy's? I wonder if the BPD compared the fibers with that jacket?

Patsy handed out red scarves to all the men at the Christmas party - - I wonder if anyone thought to compare any of those fibers.

I would LOVE to see the answers tothose questions - - supported by paper documents because I think the BPD and their people wouldn't hesitate to lie if it made their theory look better. (ego,ego,ego)


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Sam
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Oct-08-02, 03:50 PM (EST)
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30. "To ST's Angel"
In response to message #29
 
   Excuse me darlin I'm just and old dumb southern boy but all this fiber stuff and Mum runing out of the house means what? I don't see anything it means except maybe suspicious behavior and you can't convict or even have probable cause to arrest on suspicion darlin.

Now Gary Oliva what do you think about him you haft to admitt if it was your daughter with a garrot tied around her neck and that sick puppy in the neighberhood knowing his back ground wouldn't you want him checked out wouldn't he be high on your list.

I'm going to tell you something darlin only sick perverted sadistic pedifiles kill little girls like Jonbenet was killed not mothers.
And that's a fact I can back up with all kinds of homicide books and case files.JB murder is a sex crime the evidece is right in front of you garrot sexual assault and cause of death strangulation no mother is going to do this only a scum bag like Oliva.


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