Remove | Alert | IP
Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guppy
Charter Member
54 posts
Oct-04-02, 09:52 PM (EST)

2. "RE: Oliva's handwriting sample"
In response to message #1


Yes, fascinating that one of the main reasons Patsy couldn't be eliminated as the writer of the ransom
note is that she made her a's like Churchmouse. They both form the letter 'a' in a manner that is
practiced by less than 5% of of the population. I'm thinking the number used was 2%. That was on a
special in which an individual who was the third generation of his family to analyze handwriting
explained why Patsy couldn't be eliminated as the writer of the ransom note.

Remove | Alert | IP
Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Maikai
Charter Member
682 posts
Oct-04-02, 09:59 PM (EST)

3. "Besides the a's, look at"
In response to message #1


the "d's!" Same stroke and shape. Also...the r's, and the g's. Some of the g's have that same loop on
the end. The a's are very distinct as well. Compare the way letters are joined with the ransom note. I
also recall a phrase that was very similar to the note.....and look at the tone in the grievance.

The N's are capitalized...but consistently capitalized. Could have changed that.

When I first saw this writing last year, I really wondered if this guy was so obsessed, that he was
pulling a "Colfax." Toying with the police to purposely mimic the ransom note, just to get them running
in circles.

I wonder if the police ever put him through a complete handwriting analysis. Based on the CBS
programs tonight.....it's doubtful, IMO.

Remove | Alert | IP
Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

jameson
Charter Member
5916 posts
Oct-04-02, 10:28 PM (EST)

4. "ROLF"
In response to message #3


From a BORG forum - - a post paraphrased - - barely

Have you seen the copy of a note ... by Gary Oliva ...?

..... Something's fishy. The printing is very similar. I wonder how long it took jameson and
friends to DO that!!!!!!!

Remove | Alert | IP
Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Jaclyn
Charter Member
2 posts
Oct-04-02, 10:57 PM (EST)

5. "Compare the"
In response to message #4


t's and the I's with the ransom note.

Both letters show a lot of arrogance.

I always thought her analysis of the possible perp was pretty good--not the first paragraph where she says the perp may suffer from some type of organic brain syndrome:

The handwriting on the ransom note shows evidence of possible organic
brain syndrome which could be a result of substance abuse (i.e.,
alcohol, cocaine, or marijuana, which have a short-acting effect on the
brain).

The writing at the beginning of the note is substantially different from
that at the end. At the end, the writing is much more natural, and the
wording has a tone of familiarity. The unusual spacial arrangement
(letter and word spacing is highly variable, as is the right margin),
muddy ductus (line of writing), and slack rhythm is often seen in the
handwritings of criminals.

What all this indicates is someone who has poor ego boundaries and whose
reality testing is flawed. There is evidence of acute anxiety at first,
which gradually changes into close to normal functioning at the end of
the letter. We see fear of the future and desperate attempts at
regaining lost control over an altered perception of reality. The letter
writer feels socially inadequate but there is an intense, hidden
aggression that pops out without warning. The aggression has a sadistic
quality and suggests someone who could very likely be involved in
ritualistic sexual acting out.

Patsy Ramsey's handwriting (notes published in tabloids) reveals an
image-conscious person for whom control is of paramount importance. Her
public persona is unwavering stoicism. Looking good and being perfect is
not only crucial to her emotional well-being, it is all there is. She
has a heavy layer of charm and good manners, and would feel humiliated
at showing her feelings in public.

Regarding the question of whether the ransom note could have been
written by Patsy Ramsey, there are certainly some important
similarities, not so much in individual letter forms, but in the more
fundamental elements. However, comparing a printed sample to a cursive
one is comparing apples to oranges. It would be important to examine
Mrs. Ramsey's handprinting in order to form an accurate opinion on
whether or not she authored the ransom note.

If there was strong enough evidence to suggest that the two handwritings
were done by the same person, some type of dissociative disorder could
not be ruled out.

There's only one way to assess the handwriting...let the CBI look at it....samples prior to the murder....samples after.....and current ones. Handwriting is not an exact science......but it's been said that someone cannot consistently disguise their handwriting. Would be of interest if they had him print words with double s's......and phrases where you use an before a noun in the next word.

Oliva appears to have some type of obsession with the case---it's possible he took it to the lengths where he tried to write like the ransom note writer. In reality I don't think it's possible. It remains to be seen just how delusional he was...and the lengths he took the obsession to.

Also remember....he may not have had access to computers and the internet-----he might not have known that 4 years later, the ransom note was all over the net---that anyone could tie it back to him.

I would think that any similarities between Patsy's handwriting and the RN presented could be strongly countered by comparisions between Oliva's and the RN.

I would love to see a report on the Oliva sample and the RN done by the CBI or Secret Service!

Also, what type of stun gun was found in Oliva's possession? Was it an Air Taser?

Some diff's: dotted i's in note, but not in complaint; writing trends upward instead of downward (but this could be explained by general mood differences on the two occaisions). N's are capital, not lowercase. Y's have the backward sweep reminiscent of the note's g's. One diff. is the addition of the undulating crossbar on the lowercase t. All of which seems a little contrived to me. With practice, you could stop dotting your i's. You could start capitalizing your n's.

This is like the old saying: If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and walks like a duck, even if it capitalizes it's N's and doesn't dot it's i's, it's still a duck (Probably most of you aren't old enough to remember this real old saying).

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/RANSOM1.HTM

Send it to them, tell them it is Patsy's writing, and they will match it right up to the ransom note!

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/olivaRNHW.htm

http://b.heart.50megs.com/ramsey/olivaRNHW.htm

The writer of the RN changes the way he makes several of the letters. Check out the t's, for example. I included some characters from the third page on the premise that those might be more true to character.

Darnay Hoffman and the tab found someone willing to say Patsy wrote the note. If the FBI, CBI and US Secret Service couldn't do it - - I don't think I will jump the fence for these guys.

The tabloid is a BORG publication. Just consider the source while reading the article and itwill be clear what is happening. (I won't see it until it hits the stands here next Tuesday or Wednesday.)

I'm far from an expert in handwriting analysis, but I have made it an interest of mine, in fact it was through my interest in handwriting analysis that I came to be interested in this case at all.

There are many things taken into consideration when analyzing handwriting other than the formation of individual letters. Some of them are:

1. Letter spacing within words
2. Spacing between words.
3. Slant
4. Pressure (very hard to determine with felt-tip pen)
5. Base line (up, down,wavy)
6. Margins
7. Region the writing is consentrated in (mid, upper, lower)
8. Connections between letters (garland, line, none)
9. Size

All of these things are important and they are hard to fake when disguising handwriting.

Letter Spacing-In the above samples, notice that over all the spacing within words does not match. Oliva's writing shows greater spacing, not to a large degree, but it is not as crowded as the RN sample.

Word Spacing-Spacing between words is about the same. (word spacing indicates how well a person can respect other people and their "space" close word spacing is someone who doesn't observe proper boundaries between himself and other people.

Slant is also similar, although the Oliva sample tends to be upright/left whereas the ransom note is upright/right. (slant indicates the amount of expressed emotionalism. Left is someone very reserved emotionally, who reins in his/her emotions very tightly, upright is a person who is emotionally controlled, while right leaning is someone who is very expressive

Pressure is hard to determine when a felt tip is used, but it appears that Oliva’s pressure is lighter. (I don’t think this can accurately be determined from the note)

Baseline in the RN is extremely variable. Whereas in the Oliva latter it is fairly stable with somewhat of an upward slant. Baseline usually indicates overall mood. Oliva’s upward slant indicates someone in good spirits, relatively happy, upbeat. (downward writing would be an indication of depression or sadness. An extreme drop at the end can sometimes be an indication of thoughts of suicide) The RN baseline wobbles up and down, this indicates someone who is very emotionally moody and unstable.

Margins-This is difficult to compare accurately because the sample of Oliva’s writing is cut off but it appears that in Oliva’s sample the margin moves to the left, while the RN margin is very even on the left.

Region-Remember when you first learned to print and you used paper with three lines on it? Each section was a region Upper, Middle and Lower. People vary on the region their writing occupies. The upper portion signifies thought (daydreamers, philosophers, artists etc…, Mid- is self-people who concentrate in mid are often self-centered, Lower is physical-sex, money, material gain) The RN is heavily concentrated in the MID range while Oliva has strong MID and UPPER range. Neither of them have any odd low range indicators for deviant sexual interests.

Connection between letters-The RN is printed without any connections between letters at all. There are a lot of letters that touch each other, but they are not connected with loops, garlands, or arches or lines. Oliva’s writing includes some connectors even though it is a printed sample.

Size-Oliva’s writing overall is larger. Large writing is usually someone who is more outspoken, flamboyant and noticeable. The RN is in a very small print. Small writing is usually someone who is very precise and detailed.

A few other differences I noticed:

1. Oliva’s sample includes some capital letters mixed with his small letters. M’s and N’s primarily while the RN writer does not.
2. Oliva’s small t’s are crossed with loops while the RN letter is not. T crossings are am important feature of handwriting analysis
3. Many of Oliva’s letters include beginning strokes and return strokes going back up or down. As in his capital F’s , A’s, H’s, R’s. In other words he adds extra strokes that are not needed to create the letter. The RN writer is very utilitarian in his script with no extra flourishes or strokes.
4. Overall Oliva’s writing is much more fluid and consistent. It seems to be sort of a print/script while the RN writer is very inconsistent in slant, fluidity and movement of the writing.
5. The placement of the signature is also quite different. I think for purposes of comparison Victory! SBTC can be considered a signature. It’s located far to the left, while in Gary’s sample it is far to the right.