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Conferences JonBenét Ramsey current threads Topic #83
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jamesonadmin
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Apr-26-02, 10:04 PM (EST)
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"The garotte"
 
   http://www.jameson245.com/garotte.htm

Parents who kill their children do NOT use a garotte - the FBI has NOT ONE case of that in their files.

The site is graphic - but if you want to study the Ramsey case, it is important you know what happened to the child.

She struggled to remove that garotte - - her nail prints are near the garotte - her own tissue was found under her nails.

So was the DNA from an unidentified male.


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DonBradley
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Apr-28-02, 07:41 AM (EST)
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1. "pentimento?"
In response to message #0
 
   Starting over with a clean slate are we?

Fine.

I would like to start out this discussion of the garotte with one item that is of particular interest to me.

The actual cord itself...and the fact(?) that it is optimal, rather than merely being suited for its purpose.

Those fingers were ineffective...ofcourse. No six year old girl can overcome the strength of even a teen age male, much less a full grown man. We know that virtually ANY cord would have sufficed, but is it merely a coincidence that this particular cord, although readily available in any camping store, was in fact selected by the intruder?

A cord that would not slip laterally as it was pulled...and perhaps repeatedly pulled and released? A cord that fingers of any strength or desperation would not be effective?

Were her hands loosely bound just so that she would be able to clutch ineffecually at her throat, but not be able to flail at his face?
Is not this guy truly diabolical?
Should we respect his expertise?


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Joyce
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Apr-28-02, 10:40 PM (EST)
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2. "Not"
In response to message #1
 
   >Should we respect his
>expertise?

Not unless one respects those who get away with crimes. I do not and I doubt that you or anyone else here does either.


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jamesonadmin
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Jun-07-02, 08:00 PM (EST)
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3. "the cord"
In response to message #2
 
   I have some of that cord - - it feels "waxed" - all the better to make a slip knot, perhaps.

The cord matches nothing in the house and they can't find any evidence at all that the Ramseys ever owned it.


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DonBradley
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Sep-01-02, 06:06 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: the cord"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-01-02 AT 06:09 PM (EST)
 
>I have some of that cord, it feels "waxed", all the better to make a slip knot, perhaps.

Perhaps, but also perhaps to make any attempted clawing at the cord totally ineffectual. However, the main thing is this: are we dealing with a mere coincidence which could have occured simply because some guy walked into a camping store and bought the first thing he saw or are we dealing with someone extremely knowledgeable and perhaps also extremely experienced?

Anyone can select a rope at random and come up with a 'good' one. Anyone can also perhaps come up with an 'optimal' one by sheer chance. But the intruder may have come up with one by design and if so we have to consider such things as the 118,000 in the note was pre-planned and not 'spur of the moment because he saw a pay stub' or the like.

Would you carefully and methodically select the optimal rope and then later change the ransom sum on a whim?

Someone who is careful and methodical is not going to abandon his character traits at a moment of extreme stress or at a moment of extreme ecstasy. As he joyfully penned that note, his character traits did not change.

On edit: Someone so careful to select and equip himself with an optimal cord might well have penned the note well in advance too.
Which would mean access to note pads in advance.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-30-02, 08:31 PM (EST)
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5. "from 48 hours"
In response to message #0
 
   Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "JonBenét was strangled not once, says Smit, but twice, with this
intricately made device known as a garrote that had to be made by the killer during the murder."

Lou Smit: "You see hair right inside the windings of that cord. That's JonBenét's hair."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "It's a device, says Smit, that was not left there for show. Whoever killed
JonBenét used the garrote to strangle her."

Lou Smit: "That shows a very brutal death. Notice how bright red that is. I'm being very clinical here.
That is bright red. What that means is she was alive when that was pressed into her neck that hard."

(images of JonBenét's neck)

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "JonBenét was not only alive, Smit believes she was fighting for her life.
There were marks that look a lot like scratches on her neck"

Lou Smit: "She did have her own DNA under her fingernails. I'm pretty sure that's a scratch to get that

off. I think she was struggling then."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "At some point the child was then hit with such force it crushed her skull
but her nightmare wasn't over. Shortly before she died investigators believe she was sexually
assaulted
with a piece of the paint brush to make the garrote."

Lou Smit: "There is no motive for the parent to do that."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "The evidence, says Smit, simply does not support the popular theory that
the Ramseys struck their daughter then tried to cover it up."

(images of paint tray in basement hall just outside windowless room)

Lou Smit: "It's not a mother waking up in the middle of the night saying, "oops, I think I hurt my child,
oops I got to bring her downstairs and fashion one of these things then I'm going to put it around her
neck and I'm going to tighten it a couple times while she's struggling." Now if you want to believe that,

go ahead, I can't say this on the air, but that's bullshit."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "But what about the fibers from Patsy Ramsey's jacket that police say
were in the paint tray and on the sticky side of duct tape covering JonBenét's mouth?"

Erin Moriarty: "Is the fact that there were fibers that were consistent with Patsy Ramsey's jacket
incriminating?"

Lou Smit: "Sure."

Erin Moriarty: "But does that shake your faith that the Ramsey's were not involved?"

Lou Smit: "No, you just can't rely on fiber evidence because fibers could come off the jacket or
something similar to the jacket."

(image of blanket and duct tape as found in windowless room)

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "What's more says Smit there were also dozens of unidentified fibers that
didn't come from the Ramsey's and Smit is unaware of a single case where a parent used a garrote like

this to kill a child."

Lou Smit: "This is one of the best clues left behind by the killer. This shows what's going on in his
mind.
This is a sexual device. I'm looking for a pedophile who's a sexual sadist. That's what Lou Smit's
looking for."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Smit's not the only one"

(images of Ollie Gray and John Sanagustin in van)

Ollie Gray: "There are 57 pages of names that have come out of the tip files."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Colorado private detective Ollie Gray and his partner John Sanagustin
were hired by the Ramsey's two years ago."

(Background shots of rear of Ramsey Boulder house)

John Sanagustin: (Pointing toward house) "That's JonBenét's room on the second level"

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Even when the Ramsey's ran out of money, Ollie and John stayed on the
job"

Ollie Gray: "We probably do something on it two or three times a week."

Erin Moriarty: "Even though you're not getting paid?"

Ollie Gray: "Sure"


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Sam
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Oct-31-02, 09:04 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: The Garrot"
In response to message #5
 
   I would like to know if Michael knows are can identify the knot could Oliva had made the garrot has Michael ever seen are known him to tie a knot such as the one on the garrot. Where in the hell was Oliva during the estimated time of Jonbenets death.


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Jarbo9
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Nov-03-02, 03:05 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: The Garrot"
In response to message #6
 
   I would certainly like to examine the garrote in person. I am not convinced
the handle was tied to the cord after the strangulation. If you look at the
short end of the cord in the close up pictures you will see that it is
a clean cut and does not extend beyond the intricate winding of the
cord over the paint brush handle. That garrote, like the ransom note,
was prepared well in advance of the crime. The photos give the appearance
that JonBenet's hair is wrapped under the winds around the brush handle
but again I believe a close eyeball examination would prove otherwise.


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LadyBugmoderator
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Nov-03-02, 03:27 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: The Garrot"
In response to message #7
 
   "I have some of that cord - - it feels "waxed" - all the better to make a slip knot, perhaps"

Is the cord manufactured to feel 'waxed'? What is the purpose of the cord you have?
OR/ AND does the sick puppy SOB hobby with arts and crafts, macrame' and candle making projects? Bee wax is commonly used for sewing projects, small container EZ to apply to threads, string and cords but perhaps it is purchased with the wax applied.


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jamesonadmin
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Nov-03-02, 05:17 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: The Garrot"
In response to message #8
 
   I have some of the cord that is the match tot he garotte. It is for camping and such. It isn't actually waxed but feels silky - - definitely would be the shoelaces that stay untied.


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DonBradley
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Nov-04-02, 09:29 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: The garotte"
In response to message #0
 
   Are untied laces stylish, entertaining, annoying, ... ?

Okay. If that particular cord material were used as shoe laces, those laces would be perpetually untied to the surface characteristics. Therefore we may conclude that of the many uses such a cord could be put to, shoelaces is not one of them.

Perhaps howeve mountain climbers who want to pay out their ropes and not have them stick in rings or buckles might want such a slippery surface?

Was the cord selected from a store's many choices or simply picked up from what was available from neighborhood clotheslines or the like?

The paintbrush handle was selected from what was immediately availalble, but he brought the cord with him. Did he suddenly find that he needed or wanted the handle or did he intend to obtain some implement from within the home? The cord's slipperyness may well be a mere coincidence but it could also mean selectivity, care and precision.


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jamesonadmin
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Nov-04-02, 10:52 AM (EST)
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11. "silky"
In response to message #10
 
   smooth - - I would think that the killer might have preferred that cord as it would be less likely to pick up his DNA if he was tying it barehanded.

Easier movement in a slipknot - - and in bondage that is a factor to consider.

It was a "softer" material than twine or rope. Was he "killing her softly" - or was that cord just convenient, something he had around the house? I don't know. Will be interesting if he ever tells us.


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