They were staying with Glen and Susan Stine and their son, a boy who was close in age to Burke.

Judith Phillips had been trying to get to the Ramseys - to get Patsy Ramsey to sign a release so she could sell her photos to the tabloids. The Ramseys were grieving, medicated and not at all interested in havng the photos released. But Judith wanted the sale.

Judith did impose one day at the Stine house. I have been told by more than one witness at the house that Judith had been drinking and it was obvious. I believe them.

Judith found Patsy at the house, Susan Stine was not home. Judith's daughter went to see the boys while Judith spoke to Patsy.

While Judith and Patsy apparently were in different worlds that day, they do agree on one thing, Judith wanted Patsy's permission to sell the photos and Patsy said she did not want them sold or published. Susan Stine came home and she told Judith to leave her house - - she threw her - and her daughter - out.

As I remember it, Susan went to Lindsey and took her to her mother in the living room and told them both to leave - that they were not to go back without a personal invitation. Judith was furious - - and she went right out and sold those photos to the tabloid.

Judith had many men friends at the tabloid. They were quite happy to be hooked up to her.

Lindsey had been with Burke and his friend during that visit but they didn't "play" with her - she was playing reporter with them, asking what happened to JonBenét AND, according to my notes, telling the boys that her mother might have been connected to or working for the tabloids.

Judith was NOT with Burke during that visit and the rumors about how he would hug her and didn't that day are BULL. The boys were playing a computer game and didn't stop. He was a 10 year old kid - he didn't need to go see his mother's company. Burke had NOTHING to do with Judith at that time - - not at all.

Someone claiming to be Judith is posting a story on this subject and describes Patsy's dad being there and not saying a word. Don Paugh was not at the house that day, he was at work. So I wonder, is that really Judith posting? Does she have memory loss and is it related to drugs or alcohol? Or is it just a fraud, not Judith at all? Too bad we can't know for sure.

The poster said either Susan Stine or Roxy Walker. said they thought Burke was weird - I don't believe it.

I think Judith and Tom are going to get sued by a lot of people if their book is full of that garbage.

I wonder if they will include information on poor Lindsey and what she has gone through.

Her mother's involvement in this has meant Lindsey being at a few places where... I just think it is sad.

She was thrown out of one house.

Was she at the 1 year memorial service? Was that a healthy thing?

She has seen her family fall apart since the murder, her parents get divorced. Her father has not spoken out about Ramsey but her mother has. Publicly - In a way that got a lot of negative press.

Her mother has been, I believe, arrested at least once since the murder - - I will let her explain that one.

Judith has had any number of male friends since her marriage broke up. Most connected to the tabloids. I understand Lindsay was locked out of the house at times when Judith was entertaining her friends. (no garage there, apparently).

Lindsey was home when the police came knocking with a search warrant. That had to be frightening.

Judith was not a close friend to the Ramseys - she is selling a hole in her pocket - - and I am not buying. I think she should stop lying and try to clean up her own life.

But now that she's married to Tom Miller (if that is true) I think we will see MORE garbage, not less.

Her statements, and my thoughts on her statements, are perfectly acceptable in any discussion area.

We heard Judith say she went to see Patsy so Lindsey could see Burke. My sources and common sense tell me she went there to get that paper signed - - she wanted Patsy to agree to let her sell the photos.

She described how her daughter was upset when the cops searched her home for her boyfriend's personal diary.

She brings her daughter into this - - I think she is wrong doing that, but that's her right as a mother.

But for the purposes of this post, we will pretend you are.

To answer one of your questions... I didn't know Susan Stine until long after the murder of JonBenét Ramsey, have only seen her a few times, and I don't think we are at all alike. I don't think we sound alike at all.

I have spoken to people who were at the Stine house the day you went there. Different people at different times. What they told me happened all fits together and what they said does not match your description.

I might have hesitated to call you a liar but... I have spoken to several other people about you - - including several people in Atlanta who knew you long ago, and even a couple of your old tabloid buddies. They don't vouch for your moral character or truthfulness. So I guess I figure if neither side has anyone who will go to bat for you with me, maybe you aren't worth going to bat FOR!

This is my opinion based on many interviews with many people - - and based on interviews you have given many people.

I am entitled to my opinion and that's it. I think you knew the Ramseys were innocent but it didn't pay your bills to hold on to that conviction. So I think you jumped the fence, sold your soul, and you are on just the right forum, Misjustice, right?

I wouldn't want to be unfair.

Any of the women from the softball team? Roxy Walker, maybe?
Neighbors? Steven Miles or Barbara Fernie?
Reporters? Jeff Shapiro? Frank Coffman?
Lawyers? Robert Phillips?
Friends? John South? Craig Lewis?

I won't hold my breath waiting to hear from any of these people, but if they care to defend Judith's integrity, I am willing to post their mail.

The youngest was John Andrew, not Melinda.

It is very, very clear from just this one statement how well Judy (as she was known in Atlanta) knew the Ramseys.

LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-02 AT 10:08 PM (EST)

gives new meaning to the term "media whore." Jameson says that the guys at the rag mags were happy to hook up with her...well...I'll bet THAT was a 2-way street!!

I wonder how she or any of her family or friends justify her actions? Making money of the blood of a 6 year old girl.

I wonder where JUDITH was that Christmas night? Money is always a motive and she could have made BIG bucks off ALL those photos.

Edited toi add the original post Candy made on cs - will make more sense to the thread if it is included here.

Candy, if you have a problem with this quote being here, just email me and i will happily paraphrase it.

Candy's post: posted 04-13-2002
Jameson said in the post the Judith had been "arrested at least once", but didn't say what it was for. Why not Jameson?

According to my source, "She was arrested by an over-zealous cop while she was sitting in a car in a parking lot at a scenic overlook. She didn't notice a sign at the entrance stating that the parking lot was closed during certain hours of the day. She was arrested while she doing nothing except for sitting in her parked car.
Jameson didn't mention that fact. Instead, Jameson wanted to give the false impression that Judith is prone to criminal behavior and that she has been arrested "at least once." "

Candy, Candy, Candy,
You don't get arrested for sitting in a car at a scenic overlook.

I believe there is more to the story.

You are a big girl and your research skills are very good - - why don't you check the police reports and see what you come up with?

Q. Some couples, you know, share every friend in common and others will have, you know, separate friends
interested in different things. I wouldn't expect you to be a member of a sewing circle, for example. I don't
know if your wife was either.
What I'm asking is if -- I realize you don't know who she would consider -- well, I'm asking you, do you know
whom she would consider to be in her close circle of friends?

A. I think it would be the people we socialized with as couples, Pinky Barber, Barbara Fernie, Priscilla
White, Roxy Walker.

Q. Judith Phillips, would you consider her to be a close friend?

A. No.

Q. I'm not asking currently, but previously.

A. No.

Q. If I'm not mistaken, she's made representations in interviews that she was a close friend of the family's, is
that incorrect, or do you disagree with that?

A. Well, I think that's --

MR. CRAVER: Let me ask -- I object to the form of the question. I think you're asking two questions in a row.
Can you just
state one or the other?

MR. HILL: Sure.

Q. If she's made statements to the press that she was a close friend of the family's, do you differ with that?

A. I never considered her a close personal friend.

Q. Do you know if your wife considered her to be a close personal friend?

A. I don't know for sure, but I would suspect not.

Q. What type of friend was she? How would you characterize her friendship?

MR. CRAVER: At what time?

Q. During the two years preceding the tragedy.

A. She was Mel's wife. I had -- Mel and Patsy worked together in Atlanta. That's how we got to know them.
Mel was the friend. He was the reason for the contact

In that interview, Judith said that when she first heard of the murder, she was "not surprised". Judith felt that the Ramseys had been given their hard times as a "lesson". They were living evil lives, not doing as they should have been, so they lost Beth, Patsy got cancer, and then JonBenét died. Judith felt they should have been donating more time and money to the poor, not spending it on homes, decorating, traveling... certainly not PAGEANTS!

But Judith said that she did NOT believe that the parents were involved in the murder at all. She said the thought was "inconceivable". THAT was what she felt right after the murder.

She went on to say that she later became convinced that Patsy wrote the ransom note. She said this happened because she "was privy to a lot of information." In truth, this all happened at the same time her marriage was failing and her new friends were the tabloid people. They were calling her up to 30 times a day, that's HER account, talking to her, befriending her.

She said she knew the Ramseys had asked their friends and relatives not to speak to the press, but, she said, "I guess I'm the kind of person that, someone says, 'Don't do something.', I go ahead and do it anyway."

Before long, Judith found herself not only cut off from the Ramseys but befriended by the tabloid reporters and FURIOUS at Patsy!

Judith said that she became infuriated at Patsy's statement said at the end of the CNN interview - Patsy said "There's a killer out there, hold your babies close." Judith said that terrified her, was a terrible thing for Patsy to do - scare people like that. Mame, the leading interviewer, commented that that was a "...very selfish thing to do." Judith agreed. "...she would want us to share in her terror."

Judith went on to say that she revieved a letter from the Ramsey lawyers advising her not to make the photographs public. She said that "...made me mad....extremely angry." and "...that's when I started thinking, "What's going on here?"

Judith was marketing herself as a friend of the Ramseys, but she clearly never had been. The interview gave clear evidence of that. For example, Judith said she knew all three of the older Ramsey children and was closest to the youngest - melinda. Problem is, the youngest was not Melinda but John Andrew!

. In 1997, it was "inconceivable" that John or Patsy had harmed their child. Then Judith started spending time with tabloid reporters. It was rumored that she was having an affair with one of them.

In 1998, Judith believed Patsy wrote the ransom note.
.
In February 2000, Judith was stating that she believed Patsy killed her daughter. Her theory was that Patsy had caught John molesting his daughter and that resulted in the murder of JonBenét.
.
In February, 2000, Judith was engaged with Tom Miller and close friends with Craig Lewis.

In 2002, there was a rumor she married Tom Miller and he was writing a book about the Ramsey case.

one can just read all the interviews and think the woman is NOT credible. That's how I see it, that's how most posters I have followed see it.

But I do think she danced on her grave.

JP - I found it interesting the line of, the police line of questions and how it went.
Then they asked me if I knew about Patsy, if I saw her anger, if I saw her lose her temper and if I knew if
she had ever had any relationships here in Boulder, you know questions like, personality type questions.

Mame: did she?

JP: not that I know of, but I have been told by a friend by a friend of mine who is much more deeply involved in this story than I am, that she met with a woman in Denver that had a health club that had played racquet ball with a, ... I'm trying to think he was. Not an account…..

Mame: an investment person?

JP: An investment person. Yeah, and according to her friend that she knows very well, this investment person who is a man had said that he had a relationship with Patsy that night.

Mame: of the murder?

JP: yeah, that they had come home from the party at the Whites and Patsy had left the home, and had attended a party where they had a fling going.

She doesn't know of any affair that Patsy had - in fact THIS is what she said on the LEEZA show:

"Patsy is not like that. I can’t speak for John and what he does but I know Patsy well enough to know that she is the type of person who is so immensely dedicated to her children and to that relationship, there would not be anything that she would do.. um, um .. The woman is BUSY!"

But when BORG Mame interviews here, she says she knows a friend of a friend who knows a woman who knows a man who says he.....

Unbelievable.

Whatever happened to good character, truthfulness,
kindness, respect for other people? Some people seem to have no problem being false witnesses against other people.

I think people should be judged by what THEY say and do - - not by what others say about them.

I think Judith's own words, her many public interviews, show her to be.... the kind of person I would NEVER want for a friend.

http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/webdollie12/030699.html

Dave Lucas: From the Internet we have Brenda on the line calling from North
Carolina, right Brenda?

Brenda: That’s right

Dave Lucas: Okay and she’s got some questions for you Judith

Judith Phillips: Okay

Brenda: Yes, um, Judith, I would like to know why you sold the pictures you sold of
JonBenet to the
tabloids?

Judith Phillips: Um, I explained this on Larry King live before.

Brenda: I don’t get CNN

Judith Phillips: Oh you don’t

Brenda: No, so that’s why I would like to know. It bothers me that you did that.

Judith Phillips: Well that’s your opinion

Brenda: I mean it’s kind of like the Linda Tripp of Boulder.

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda. I mean that’s the way I see it

Judith Phillips: Well your entitled to your opinion and I have the photographs and I
kept them secure
in a safe for many
many months because I was afraid somebody would break into my house and steal
them.

Brenda: Ah eh.

Judith Phillips: And I had many many people at that particular time approaching me,
ah, about the
photographs that I
was……

Brenda: See I would have admired you if you had kept them till it was all over and
then done
something with them but I
think the time that they were released was sort of a disgusting thing to do. You know
I was just
wondering why you did it.

Judith Phillips: Well because, um, at that particular point I was approached, I was, I
had several
friends from the
publication that approached me

Brenda: I mean was it for the money? Is that why you did it?

Judith Phillips: No it was not

Brenda: Okay

Judith Phillips: Because I had been um, constantly hounded by people who wanted to
see my
photographs and my
photographs were quite different than what most people had seen before and I was
not equipped nor
did I want to be able
to a photography agency to handle all those requests so the publication said they
would do that for
me.

Brenda: Did you offer it to the Ramsey’s first?

Judith Phillips: Did I offer?

Brenda: The pictures

Judith Phillips: No I did not.

Brenda: Did you offer it to their family?

Judith Phillips: No, I did not

Brenda: You just took it on your own to put them in a tabloid, is that right?

Judith Phillips: Well I owned the pictures

Brenda: Yeah I know, I am aware of that

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda: I mean I was just asking the question. They weren’t aware that you were
going to do this
with the pictures?

Judith Phillips: I don’t know, I can’t answer that

Dave Lucas: Judith, are there any other photographs that did not get released?

Brenda: (can’t make out first part) I mean she could pick up a few hundred dollars
you know

Judith Phillips: Well ah, are you finished now?

Brenda: Yeah, I was listening to you honey

Judith Phillips: Okay, well I think I am finished talking to you too.

Brenda: Okay, thanks

Dave Lucas: Okay, well thanks for your call.

"Judith came to see me at the
Stines’ house, asking for permission to publish the mother-daughter pictures that had previously been
excluded from her show. Fortunately, Susan Stine had heard earlier that she was trying to sell some of the
photographs to People magazine. Susan told Judith in no uncertain terms to leave and not come back. Back in
January, when Judith told our friends she wanted to sell the photos, our libel attorney had sent a standard
letter to her, telling her not to publish, sell, or distribute any photographs of the Ramsey family without our
permission.

Yet a few months later Judith apparently sold the pictures to the National Enquirer. She always had her
subjects sign an agreement, saying that she could do whatever she wanted with the photographs, and I had
apparently signed such a document years earlier, never dreaming she would do anything further with the
photos, let alone sell them to a supermarket tabloid."

All I can say is if the photography doesn't pan out - she can always try for a career in tap dancing!

To those upset about the name of JP's daughter being in this thread, her name has been public for a LONG TIME. I feel sorry for the child. Maybe one day she will speak out and tell her story - - and maybe she will tell the truth.

Pg 185 - A few weeks later, before the dinner was arranged, the Phillipses’ daughter, Lindsey, said that she
wanted to play with Burke, so Judith drove her over to the Stines’ house, which was just around the corner
from her own home. She rang the bell, and a moment later, two little eyes peered through the blinds. When
a housekeeper opened the door, Judith saw Patsy, fully dressed and made up, sitting on the living room
sofa, and talking to a woman who was visiting from Atlanta. Lindsey went off to play with Burke and some
other children, and Patsy greeted Judith, who could now see that despite her attempt to look composed,
Patsy was in fact distraught under the thinnest veneer of normalcy. Judith thought she might be heavily
medicated. Soon Patsy was crying on Judith’s shoulder.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Patsy was heavily medicated and I think she would have cried on the shoulder of the Roto-Rooter man if he had offered to listen.

Judith saw Patsy exactly ONCE after the murder - and that was not at the funeral but when she went to get permission to sell the photos. The story of their good friendship is, IMO, a very warped attempt by Judith to be something she was not, and is not. I will leave it to you to figure out what that is.

I would be happy to sit with Lindsey's grandmother and have a cup of tea and discuss this situation. Perhaps she would like to join the forum so she can express HER views as well! I would certainly welcome her input. After all, she knows Judy better than the rest of us - I think her thoughts on Judy's interviews and activities would be very entertaining!

I know if she was MY daughter, I would be very displeased. I don't think Judy is a very nice lady.

(ok, maybe I've been watching too many Patty Duke reruns).

If Candy wants me to paraphrase these posts and not quote her, she just has to email and ask - - I will be happy to paraphrase them.

Post #1
Jameson asked on her site for me to check into police reports, so I did. I was told of another arrest, which I believe is what she is referring to, so in this respect, I apologize to her. However, I don't understand why that arrest was mentioned either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post #2 Well, to confuse you even more, I talked to the first person about this "other arrest". It's all part of the same incident, meaning it isn't separate from what I first posted about. It just has a different name as to what the arrest is labeled. Judith was cited for merely sitting in her car after she had had a few beers. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the murder of JonBenet or anything else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is that all? Nothing more in the police reports? Keep digging. You might find more - just might.

As for why it is relevent here, it goes to the character of the witness, Your Honor.

She worries about Burke - well, he is home with two parents who have never been arrested. Never been arrested for a single thing. I think Judy has more than enough on her plate taking care of her own life, and the lives of her 2 kids.

Is there some reason she never mentions her son?
Maybe she is focused on her daughter and he is feeling slighted.... nevermind - - just goofing on ya. I am sure he is old enough now to take care of himself. Sure hope so.

Judith Phillips is posting as cookie on another forum and trying to regain her credibility as a moral person - - I think that is an impossible task, but that's JMO. Her latest is saying she thinks Patsy and Dr. Beuf may have been having an affair. Someone who knew Judith is real life laughed and said to me,

"Just because Judith has slept with more people than are in the Seventh Fleet doesn't mean the Ramseys were having affairs. They weren't, and
aren't. Does Judith seem to be making really extreme accusations lately? What's up with her and Doc?"

I have a question and an answer.
Q. Just how many people are in the 7th Fleet.
A. Her and Doc want to publish a book.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Didn't want to to go to sleep"
Posted by tipper on Apr-26-02 at 09:28 PM (EST)

wondering..
The 7th Fleet has about 20,000 Navy and Marine Corps personnel.

Busy girl.

For the record - I am sure the person was exaggerating....

Anyway, I'm sorry Patsy isn't feeling well. I think of her and it puts my own difficulties in perspective.

"There is no new theory in this book. The facts are that PR wrote the note, she was involved in the murder and the RAM'S big money bought the justice system. How the justice system was bought has never been explained until now.'

I have sent a copy of this post - and the URL where it can be found, to Lin Wood. I think Judith and her husband want 15 minutes of fame - and they may get it - as defendants in a libel suit.

She has announced that her husband has written a book and she has put out some information on that book. It is perfectly legal to quote her according to the lawyers I have spoken to.