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Subject: "Any Yale connections with the Ramseys?" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences old JBR threads Topic #74
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tipper
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Apr-29-02, 02:05 PM (EST)
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"Any Yale connections with the Ramseys?"
 
   SBTC

This may be old stuff but...

Was watching a rerun A&E show on secret socities. They did a bit on Yale's Skull and Bones. The night the group meets is called SBT (Skull and Bones Tonight. Don't know what the C would mean, Commences? Anyway, it just caught my ear.


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Bobo
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Apr-30-02, 00:27 AM (EST)
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1. "not Yale"
In response to message #0
 
   and not quite on topic...
Seemed the best place to stick it though--without a new thread. I don't recall thsi here, prob'ly was and recall is just bad. But, made me curious...
DNA links suspect in Colorado assaults to Philadelphia rapist
Wednesday, September 19, 2001

By JOE GARNER
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

FORT COLLINS, Colo. -- The man suspected of six sexual assaults in Fort Collins this summer is Philadelphia's infamous "Center City rapist," a sexual predator who assaulted six women and murdered one in a series of crimes that terrorized the city over two years, police said.

The link was confirmed by DNA comparisons that "positively identified" the Fort Collins suspect as the man Philadelphia police have sought since 1997.

"We do not have a name, but the code of the DNA from the Fort Collins cases matches DNA from the Philadelphia cases," Fort Collins police spokeswoman Rita Davis said Monday.

The Philadelphia assaults led to a pending lawsuit against the city by the parents of 23-year-old Shannon Schieber, a student at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School.

Schieber's parents claim city police set the stage for her May 7, 1998, murder by inaction and "downgrading" the crimes, blinding themselves and the public to what was a growing danger in the Center City area.

Two police officers responding to a 911 call from neighbors who had heard screams, the suit contends, knocked on Schieber's door but left when no one answered. Inside, Schieber was being strangled.

Fort Collins' link to the Philadelphia crimes came after Fort Collins police circulated information about the six sexual attacks in this northern Colorado college town to other police agencies, Davis said.

Philadelphia investigators could not travel to Fort Collins until the weekend because air travel shut down because of the terrorist attacks.

Davis said the Colorado Bureau of Investigation has confirmed that DNA recovered from the first and fourth sexual assaults in Fort Collins matched, Davis said.

The Philadelphia attacks occurred between June 1997 and August 1999. The Fort Collins attacks occurred May 10, June 13 and 24, July 26, Aug. 5 and Aug. 23.

"He's certainly a shrewd individual because he's able to do this as long as he has and get away," Philadelphia police Cpl. Jim Pauley said. "He's not a dummy."


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/39351_rape19.shtml


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DonBradley
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Apr-30-02, 06:56 AM (EST)
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2. "How many think . . . "
In response to message #1
 
   > and not quite on topic... Seemed the best place to stick it
>though--without a new thread.
>"He's not a dummy."
"He's not a dummy."
Okay, we have those who think it was a neighborhood kid, a transient, a video-store clerk, ... each of these would tend to be more the 'jail' than the 'Yale' type.
How many think the perpetrator is bright, really bright?

I would say he is very intelligent, highly educated and fairly wealthy. Certainly not a transient or video-store clerk.


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Joyce
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Apr-30-02, 07:15 AM (EST)
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3. "Why"
In response to message #2
 
  

>I would say he is very intelligent,
>highly educated and fairly wealthy. Certainly
>not a transient or video-store clerk.

do you think he is wealthy??? I've heard you say that before but I can't figure out why. I cannot imagine someone who is wealthy, coming into a house and writing a garbage nonsense note like that and taking a girl into a basement and killing her, when he could go traveling, something more positive than that. Why go that route instead?


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jamesonadmin
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Apr-30-02, 08:10 AM (EST)
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4. "Never heard of any connection...."
In response to message #3
 
   not to Yale.

Maybe the killer has the connection.


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Dave
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May-01-02, 01:38 AM (EST)
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9. "Intelligence, Education, and Wealth"
In response to message #2
 
   Not "very intelligent," but "very cunning."

Not "highly educated," but "highly trained."

Not "fairly wealthy," but "fairly resourceful."


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DonBradley
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Apr-30-02, 10:56 AM (EST)
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5. "Detached?"
In response to message #0
 
   >do you think he is wealthy???
>I cannot imagine someone who is wealthy, coming
>into a house and writing a garbage nonsense note
>like that and taking a girl into a basement and
>killing her, when he could go traveling,
>something more positive than that. Why go that route instead?
Why go that route instead?
Why kill daughters who are not virgins?
Why does a man shave his head yet let his beard grow?
Why is alcohol forbidden but heroin permitted?
Why do people drive on the left?
Why do we not eat carrot tops?

Perhaps we should maintain a more detached viewpoint here?
What you really mean is that you would not do such a thing and that you can not imagine that anyone in your social milleau would do such a thing?
Well, I am quite certain that your value system does not permit such acts, but it is quite obvious that his value system does. So rich or poor, he "invested" a great deal of time and effort in the enterprise in order to receive some sort of reward. . Maybe he could have traveled to Istanbul instead, maybe he could only have afforded to travel to Denver instead. But rich or poor, one thing is certain: he did NOT travel to Istanbul that night and he did not travel to Denver that night.
"something more positive like that"??
Well, don't you think that he is of the opinion that he did a very positive thing that night?


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DonBradley
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Apr-30-02, 05:36 PM (EST)
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6. "Disappointed."
In response to message #5
 
   >he did a very positive thing that night?

I'm disappointed. I had expected a mild uproar over my use of the phrase 'positive thing'. What I mean to emphasize is that just as a scientist studying deviant behavior must view such deviance from the point of view of the people he is studying, so too we must view deviant behavior from the point of view of the intruder.

He took risks, expended time, effort and perhaps some money in this enterprise. And he gained a reward for his efforts. This was not a whim. This was a project. A goal.



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tipper
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Apr-30-02, 08:01 PM (EST)
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7. "Guess we're"
In response to message #6
 
   all just too educated in deviant behavior for you, DB. Nothing shocks us or gets us in an uproar anymore.


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Dave
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May-01-02, 01:32 AM (EST)
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8. "Tipper: Christmas?"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-01-02 AT 01:40 AM (EST)

Tipper: Christmas (in the Skull & Bones scheme)? It has no period, suggesting that it is somehow distinct, intentionally or unintentionally.

Added: My response to DB ended up above. Be sure not to miss it!


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DonBradley
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May-01-02, 10:17 AM (EST)
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10. "Intelligence"
In response to message #8
 
   Not "very intelligent," but "very cunning."
Being bold, daring and cunning are certainly traits that he posesses. I don't know if posessing those traits means that he is not intelligent. "Street Smarts" and "book smarts" are not mutually exclusive.


Not "highly educated," but "highly trained."
I would say he is primarily trained in a very technical field, but that he is also widely read in other areas too. He would be primarily familiar with his technical manuals, but he has also read Chaucer (or atleast the Cliff Notes).

Not "fairly wealthy," but "fairly resourceful."
Well, sustained appliction of resourcefulness skills usually leads to becoming fairly wealthy, does it not? The man who has read all the Cliff Notes series but who has memorized all the Java Programming Texts is wealthy enough to apply his resourcefulness skills to the study of true crime and therefore learn to avoid detection and capture. By not making any mistakes, he remains at liberty to apply his resourcefulness to wealth building.


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Dave
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May-03-02, 00:44 AM (EST)
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11. "DB: Intelligence, etc."
In response to message #10
 
   DB: The truth of the statement that

>>>"'Street Smarts' and 'book smarts' are not mutually exclusive"

is irrelevant to whether or not this perpetrator possesses either one or both. But I do think that he possesses one far more than the other. He may be able to sneak in and out of Boulder under the noses of BPD, but I also think that he would be chewed up in any reasonably good debate at a Boulder City Council meeting.

>>>"But he has also read Chaucer (or at least the Cliff Notes)."

If so, only involuntarily. And he probaby forgot it all long ago.

>>>"Well, sustained appliction of resourcefulness skills usually leads to becoming fairly wealthy, does it not?"

Have you not heard: "Crime doesn't pay?" The result of "sustained application of resourcefulness skills" depends upon exactly which applications to which said "resourcefulness skills" are applied as well as whether or not the application is actually sustained. My impression is that this perpetrator is resourceful in certain ways only, not in others. I don't think, for example, that he could possibly have competed against AG in business, i.e. setting up a company, hiring people, training them, convincing Sun to drop AG, etc.

This person is more Paleolithic Man than Renaissance Man.


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DonBradley
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May-03-02, 09:06 AM (EST)
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12. "Of streets and books . . . "
In response to message #11
 
   >This person is more Paleolithic Man than Renaissance Man.

Paleolithic Man did more than hunt and fish: he also painted caves, traded and comtemplated the stars at night.

Forgot his Chaucer? Yeah, maybe...but he didn't forget John Stuart Mills.



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tipper
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May-03-02, 09:14 AM (EST)
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13. "intelligent etc."
In response to message #10
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-03-02 AT 09:15 AM (EST)

I don't know that this guy was particularly intelligent. Bundy wasn't especially bright (125 IQ) yet he managed to cover his tracks (and escape twice) for quite a while. His unraveling when under pressure is what did him in. Douglas' suggestions might have had the same effect here. Instead we had the BPD bumbling along which may well have confirmed to this guy the righteousness of his cause.

Not sure about the educated vs trained.

I think if he had the breadth of energy to focus on acquiring wealth he wouldn't have been so focused on John as deserving punishment. Being "resourceful" means he probably doesn't go hungry but beyond that I think it's hard to say.

Dave - Christmas will do. SBTC is one of the most annoying clues in this case since it could mean everything or nothing and we'll never know unless there is a confession.


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DonBradley
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May-03-02, 11:28 AM (EST)
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14. "Indeed."
In response to message #13
 
   > Being "resourceful" means he probably
>doesn't go hungry but beyond that
>I think it's hard to say.
Yes, indeed...hard to say. I'd much prefer a good set of prints or something 'hard' rather than 'soft' such as criminal profiling.

Crimes of impulse do not pay; crimes by the stupid do not pay, but in general crime pays and it pays very well. Professional shoplifters, organized car thieves, etc. do very well. Take a drive to Murphy Village and look at all those quarter-million dollar houses: almost the entire town lives by crime. Or try Cicero, Illinois: the Gypsy Travellers there are all rich.

I'd say the guy makes a good living but had no social life and therefore was perfectly willing to indulge in a project that consumed his spare time: he had alot of that.


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Dave
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May-07-02, 07:11 PM (EST)
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15. "Romantic Nonsense"
In response to message #14
 
   There's a lot of romantic nonsense these days about Paleolithic times and many other things, for that matter. It was a brutish existence by any standard. JonBenét's murder wasn't some form of higher art, but more consistent with brutal acts in the past. We all contemplate the stars; it's what we do before and after that determines what kind of people we are.


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