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jamesonadmin
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Aug-28-02, 06:59 PM (EST)
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"Hi-Tec boots"
 
   I believe the authorities figured out that the bootprint inthe basement was made by a hi-Tec boot - - and it seemed to me they figured out they were magnum boots.

Check out the page.

http://www.gravesuniforms.com/publicsafety/footwear/magnumboots.html

Here are the boots, I have seen numerous photos of Burke wearing shoes - - never saw him in boots like these.


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Hi-Tec boots [View All], jamesonadmin, 06:59 PM, Aug-28-02, (0)  
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jamesonadmin
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Aug-28-02, 07:02 PM (EST)
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1. "official boots for Boy Scouts?"
In response to message #0
 
  
http://www.bsa505.org/html/body_section_11.html

11.1 Official Troop 505 “Dress” (Class “A”) Uniform:

1. Scout shirt
2. Troop T-shirt (Red with Logo)
3. Scout pants (long) or Scout shorts, if required
4. Scout belt (leather or web)
5. Scout socks (if wearing shorts), black socks (if wearing long pants)
6. Black high top (Hi-Tec) Magnum boots
7. Merit badge sash (formal occasions only)
8. Troop 505 neckerchief (RED with GOLD trim)
9. Hat: Scout red beret (Maroon Beret for Active members of the Drill Team)
(Campaign Hats for Scoutmasters and Eagle Scouts)

</b>That may be fine for older scouts - - but it wouldn't work for Burke and other boys his age. Magnum boots go from men's size 7-13.
Burke's feet were too small at that time to wear those boots.


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-28-02, 07:05 PM (EST)
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2. "Here's a pair of Hi-Tec boote!"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-02 AT 07:06 PM (GMT)
 

These are the boots that belonged to Helgoth - - the man who died in February of 1997. They are the kind of boots that make the logo found inthe basement.

I don't know if these are THE boots that left the prints, but here is a photo comparison some might find interesting.

The image on the left is the print from the basement. The image on the right is from a photo taken of Helgoth's boot. (mirror image for better comparison)


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-28-02, 07:16 PM (EST)
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3. "Here's a kid's shoe"
In response to message #2
 
  

The logo is not the same.

This seems to me to be a waste of time.

Some cops want to believe the Hi-Tec print was made by Burke but they don't have the boots or evidence they bought the boots, or photos of him wearing the boots.

Long ago I asked my son if he owned any Hi-Tec shoes. he said yes - - they have lights on them. Well, I knew very well he didn't own any Hi-Tec brand footwear - I don't spend that much on a kid for shoes. But he would tell you he had hi-tech shoes.

If Brennan's source wants me to believe they linked the print to Burke they will have to do better than to give Brennan the ststement and tell him he can't name them. I can say someone told me they know the DNA in JonBenét's panties belonged to Judge Mudd - - it isn't true and if some reporter actually ran with the false story, it wouldn't become fact.


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Sam
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Aug-28-02, 07:34 PM (EST)
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4. "What size boot"
In response to message #3
 
   Are the police able to determine the size of boot print found in wine cellar and is it the same size as Helgoths boots and do they have possesion of Helgoths boots and do they match.


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-29-02, 01:35 AM (EST)
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5. "size"
In response to message #4
 
   I don't think they had enough of the print to know the exact size, no.

But it wasn't a kid's boot.


As for the helgoth boot - - they said it was not a match - - they didn't say it was excluded as the source.

Remember, Helgoth didn't die until weeks after the murder - - the boots, if he wore them every day, could have more grooves and nicks in it - - the boots may not be exact, but they sure were interesting - - not everyone owned Hi-Tec Boots and was in the area and had some history...


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DonBradley
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Aug-29-02, 02:18 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: size"
In response to message #5
 
   >As for the helgoth boot - - they said it was not a match - -
>they didn't say it was excluded as the source.
Right, the oft-repeated statement of 'not a match' is meaningless and intentionally misleading.

If there is the slightest difference between the two images, they are not a match.

Consider:
Unique characteristics of the boot at the time the crime lab made the impression are not found in the impression taken from the crime scene and would be expected to have been in the crime scene impression if the Helgoth boot had been responsible for creating the impression found at the crime scene.

But NOT A MATCH is meaningless.

A fingerprint at a crime scene is usually a 'partial' print while a fingerprint on an index card is a 'complete' print of the fingertip, but the two impressions are 'not a match' despite the same person having made them.


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-29-02, 01:19 PM (EST)
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7. "semantics"
In response to message #6
 
   The BPD compared two DNA samples for me. One, they came back and said that based on the comparison, the man was cleared - - it couldn't possibly be a match. That was a good thing. I got to tell the man's closest family that he was innocent and they didn't have to have any doubt.

The second sample, however, they said it wasn't a match. Well, we know the DNA profile in the Ramsey case is not a full profile - - it is partial. There CAN'T be an exact match. I asked, can you exclude him? They refused to answer that question, just said it was not a match. I went back to that tipster and told them what I found out. I certainly couldnt' say that I knew for sure he was cleared - - I don't.

Have to watch for those words.

(Interesting thing - - the cops knew the name of the person giving the first sample - - the second went in as a John Doe and they never asked me after who it was. I found that odd. Maybe they know... maybe that profile was already in their system so they know. But the fact is, they never told me they knew or seemed at all interested in knowing the name.)


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-29-02, 04:36 PM (EST)
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8. "Burke's shoes"
In response to message #7
 
  


They were not Hi-Tec brand.


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Dave
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Aug-30-02, 04:44 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Burke's shoes"
In response to message #8
 
   Notice in the pic kindly posted by Jams, Burke's shoe size appears to be roughly, perhaps slightly smaller, than Patsy's. Their feet are somewhat closer to the camera, so they appear larger in proportion to other objects --- that is an illusion. Nevertheless, both of their feet are at about the same distance from the camera so can be compared to each other for size.

Now are we to believe that Patsy wears Men's Size 9? Or maybe even 10? Or do Patsy and Burke just wear REALLY BIG shoes? Or do those Hi-Tec boots simply not belong to Burke?


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-30-02, 05:10 PM (EST)
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10. "Burke"
In response to message #9
 
   Burke was still wearing kids shoes, he wasn't into men sizes.

The cops had the Ramseys in sight 24/7 in the first days - - they had the house and checked all the footwear - - don't forget, they had the footprint the moment they had the body.

Read ST's book - - while his theory is wrong, he did have some police information in there - - and they didn't link the boots to the Ramseys. Not at all.

I am hearing through the grapevine that the story Burke had Hi-Tec boots is coming from Judith Phillip's daughter, likely is part of Tom Miller's book. This gossip (for that is all it is at this point) is very interesting. I don't think I would trust that source. Not under the circumstances - they fact the kids weren't so close, passage of time, the fact that her mother and step-father have profited from anti-Ramsey press and the timing - - Miller's book is finished and he is reportedly looking for a publisher.


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jamesonadmin
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Aug-30-02, 08:03 PM (EST)
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11. "For the record"
In response to message #10
 
   Judith's daughter, Lindsay, was not in Burke's class when they were in K-2nd grade, and after that they weren't even in the same school.

Lindsay and Burke were NOT playmates. Judith knew Patsy because they had mutual friends, but Judith was never good friends with Patsy and her kids were not close to the Ramsey children. Certainly Lindsay didn't know what kind of <i>shoes</i> Burke wore.

I think the whole gossip story stinks.


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DonBradley
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Aug-31-02, 06:14 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: For the record"
In response to message #11
 
   >I think the whole gossip story stinks.
Yep, I'm sure it does. However, just as people who had filmed JonBenet at pageants chose to sell those images to the tabloids, I'm sure people who will make exaggerated claims about intimate knowledge of Burke's shoes will sell their concocted remembrances to the tabloids.


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jamesonadmin
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13. "JAR and scouts"
In response to message #12
 
   JAR was in the scouts - - in GA. LONG before the murder. If he owned Hi-Tec boots, they were in GA and gone long before he went to college in Colorado.

The cops searched the Ramsey house looking for Hi-Tec footwear - - there weren't any there.


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Sam
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Sep-03-02, 09:14 AM (EST)
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14. "RE:Parcial DNA"
In response to message #13
 
   That's a new one on me parcial dna if they have just one cell and to have dna they must have cells then they have chromosomes and that has all the genetic information they need to be consistant with or not to be.


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Sam
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15. "RE:Follow up on high teck boot"
In response to message #14
 
   jameson I understand what your saying about dateing with the mold but I don't think it could be dated that night, the mold may have been their for weeks and alot of police officers wear Hi-Tech boots possibly a contaiminated crime scene by police because we all know how the police in Bouldar did not properly preserve the crime scene.


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jamesonadmin
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16. "answers"
In response to message #0
 
   The DNA profile they have is really a partial profile.

It is like .... say you have an ID bracelet with your name on it - - and I have one with my name on it and all the posters have one - - and we all go to a picnic and later, when we are clearing up, we find the beads to one..... and being a good detective, you want to figure out whose it was so you can return it. Most are in good shape but a few got in the paint thinner that Alex spilled so we can't tell what they say....

Well, you have the letters R I S T and N - - So tell me, whose is it? Christine's or Christian's Or Kristen's.

You can't tell me - - but you know sure it isn't Samuel's or Patricia's or John's.


The DNA was not a very big sample and it was not a good clear full profile.

But it was enough that they have taken DNA samples from suspects and said they cleared a few because they could NOT have been the donor of that DNA.

On the mold.... The prints were fresh - - the investigators know it. Couldn't have been from weeks before. Maybe a couple days, certainly not weeks - - it was too clear.


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Myself
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Sep-07-02, 01:03 AM (EST)
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17. "I am familiar"
In response to message #16
 
   with steel cap boots
and the type of people that wear them
and the thought that a boy could be one of those types
is ridiculous...


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Maikai
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18. "Look closely at the photos of"
In response to message #17
 
   the print in the mold and the boot. There is a circular ridge apparent above the logo---a similar circular ridge in the mold above the logo.

I wonder how closely microscopic material was looked for on the boots--if dirt or mold or even carpet fibers could have gotten in any ridges in the boot---even on the shoelaces.

Did they really keep Helgoth's DNA that could be used a few years later for comparison?

Then again, it's possible Helgoth didn't act alone, and the DNA could have been from an accomplice. And he was murdered, because he may have been a loose canon that might have confessed.


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Myself
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19. "That's what I think"
In response to message #18
 
   Maikai


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Sam
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20. "RE: On DNA"
In response to message #19
 
   jameson I'm no scientist but your explanation on the dna sounds like they must have performed mt/dna (mitochondrial) because it sounds like maybe their picking up the maternal mother side of the dna and that what you pick up with mt/dna. There must be such a minute specimen that only mt/dna could be performed. So where picking up JB dna and foriegn dna that can't be matched. Sound familiar Butts.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-27-02, 11:44 AM (EST)
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21. "Brennan and the bootprints"
In response to message #20
 
   Charlie Brennan wrote a story saying a source he refuses to name says the bootprints belonged to Burke and the cops know that.

I know that is wrong.

I have been in contact with Brennan who says he trusts his source.

Well, I don't. I think Brennan is wrong here, he has a source who is wrong and he is sadly putting out misinformation.

There is a rumor that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots sometime before the murder. That is based on witness testimony of the KIDS saying Burke owned some high-tech (not necessarily Hi-Tec)footwear and that they think he had some shoes with a compass on them.

The police never found any evidence that the ramseys bought Hi-Tec boots for Burke or that he ever had any. They certainly did not find any in the house after the murder - and Burke was not wearing Hi-Tec boots when he left the house that day or when he went to his parents that evening.

The Hi-Tec print that was found in the basement room was NOT from Burke Ramsey. The police have NOT established that as a fact.

I don't know who Charlie Brennan's source is but I would tell him to his face that he (or she) is a BORG misinformer.


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Mikiemoderator
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22. "RE: Brennan and the bootprints"
In response to message #21
 
   First, Burke should be questioned to determine if he ever had such boots.

Second, his parents should say what they know about Burke's boots.

It seems ridiculous to me that the Ramseys don't ever talk to Burke. That is the impression I get. Also they seem afraid to say anything for fear that it will be used against them. Many facts could be known by a change in their participation in the resolution of the case. It is my understanding that John didn't even read any of the tips emailed to him. He passed them on but doesn't he care what people say? Burke was not questioned about his being awake until two years after the crime in the GJ? It doesn't seem right to me, although I cannot say that it means anything. It just bugs me.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-27-02, 03:11 PM (EST)
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23. "you are wrong"
In response to message #22
 
   Burke was spoken to on the morning of the 26th - - he had feigned sleep when the cop checked in on him that morning so the cops didn't ask him anything about that early morning - instead they asked him if he knew about anyone who might have been watching JonBenét or trying to be her friend before the murder.

When Burke spoke to the DSS psychiatrist he may well have indicated that he had just pretened to be asleep. The cops sure knew about that later when Dan Schuler interviewed Burke and the cops watched from a remote spot.

The cops knew - - it was the Ramseys who were uneducated on the subject.

As for Burke and his parents not talking - - the professionals advised the Ramseys not to press Burke - to let him take the lead when it came to discussing the murder. They did as they were told - - they listened to hm and answered his questions when they could. They did not go into any detailed discussions he was not ready for.

Burke was in therapy - - he was getting professional help. John and Patsy did what they felt best for Burke and I think criticizing them for that is wrong. Burke has had to deal with a lot - - everyone did what they thought best.


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Mikiemoderator
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24. "RE: you are wrong"
In response to message #23
 
   I know. But this simple question of whether he had hitek boots is something that now is arising because it has never been clearly addressed early on by the Ramseys. Burke was only 9 at the time. But here is Brennan saying the hiteks were Burkes. Why can't Burke say "Hey, wrong, I never had that type"? Or why can't John or Patsy say that? By NOT speaking out against it they are allowing the myth to prevail. Same with many myths. The cord came from Patsy's art class? Her handwriting matches the RN? The duct tape was bought by John? etc. If I were them I would publicly deny those things and I think people would listen. By silence the myths prevail.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-27-02, 06:09 PM (EST)
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25. "comments"
In response to message #24
 
   Burke remains silent so he doesn't jeopardize his private person status. No one wants to make him a "public person" and there really is no need to.

Asfor John and Patsy speaking out, they told the police they didn't remember ever owning Hi-Tec boots and didn't believe they ever bought any for Burke.

In the RMN, inthe articles on Lou Smit, we have this:

Unknown shoe tread: One print appears to be a tread from a shoe but doesn't match shoes owned by John and Patsy Ramsey and doesn't match any shoes found in the house. The print is in the cellar near where the body was found.

Hi-Tec boot print: Another print belongs to a Hi-Tec boot, which also does not match any shoes owned by the family.

What should they do now? Call the press screaming about the boot print and how Charlie Brennan's unnamed source is mistaken? Kind of like trying to sweep the sand into the ocean as the tide comes in. They have putout the truth. Lou Smit has put his nameto his report and HE has put out the truth. A coward who won't put his name with his words says they are lying.

The BORG attacks will continue forever. People have to learn to consider the source and ignore the garbage that seems to come out whenever people start considering that maybe the BPD was wrong and the Ramseys are innocent and maybe the killer IS still unexposed and a threat.

The Ramseys have to pick their battles. Fighting a nameless ghost is hardly a wise use of their time. No way they can win that fight.

They can't prove they did NOT drink a beer at three this morning, or that they did NOT plot to kill Princess Di, or that they did NOT buy Hi-Tec bootsfor Burke.

They can tell the truth.

They can't prove a lot - - and that isn't their responsibility.

The prosecution has the burden of proof.

If Brennan'sunnamed source can prove Burke owned Hi-Tec boots and the police proved those boots left those prints, then let that source come forward and prove it.

Don't hold your breath. It isn't going to happen. No way, no how.


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