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Conferences JonBenét Ramsey current threads Topic #240
Reading Topic #240
jamesonadmin
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Sep-10-02, 02:02 PM (EST)
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"Handwriting studies"
 
   While everyone agrees John Ramsey did not write the note, Patsy Ramsey cannot be eliminated as the author of the ransom note, not even by her own experts.


Only Darnay Hoffman's "experts" have done tht and they sat down with the samples they intended to match - - it was not a blind study and - - lo and behold they ended up able to make a match - - from an inadequate amount of unverified samples - - they did whatothers found impossible.

OK - - so now Darnay Hoffman hopes to put Patsy Ramsey on trial - - and I hope he gets to eat crow - or turkey - jerky.

I want to point out that there are other handwriting samples from reasonable suspects that also can't be eliminated.

Has anyone come up with reports eliminating Helgoth, Wolf, Gardiner, Simons, McElroy, the McReynolds or the Pugh family members? How about Thomas Aquinas? How about Frank Coffman? *yeah, that was said tongue in cheek*

There are other possible suspects out there - - I have several handwriting samples that might be of interest if anyone really wanted to do a blind study.


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Sam
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Sep-10-02, 04:31 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Thomas Aquines"
In response to message #0
 
   That's the person Don Bradley was talking about that meets my profile.
I would like to know why the Boulder police,FBI and CBI are not obtaining this persons dna and comparing it with the dna found on JB.
I would also like to know why the dumb a**es at the National Enquiror and other tabloids are not trying to locate this person and see what he's up to. Not bragging folks because I know I'm just a big dumb southern boy but I have on this webb site nailed several killers jameson can confirm. I say nailed profiled them pretty close and Thomas Aquines is my boy for the murder of Jonbenet. If I was the Ramseys I would be pouding the hell out of the tabloids wanting to know why they are not agressively trying to obtain detailed information and criminal records on Thomas Aquines and his where abouts and movement before and since the murder of Jonbenet. I think they would find it very interesting and just tell him Sam sent you.


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jamesonadmin
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Sep-10-02, 05:30 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Thomas Aquinas"
In response to message #1
 
   The cops had him for a B&E - - don't think they really checked him out - - in fact I think they did NOT because they don't want to disprove the theory they are banking on - - BORG.

He has a record in other states - - hopefully someone will take this seriously and force the comparisons and either clear him or bring him in for an interrogation about this case.


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jamesonadmin
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Sep-24-02, 08:31 PM (EST)
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3. "Donald Lacy - a NYL expert says"
In response to message #2
 
   Daily Messenger

Penfield man finds clues on paper

DAILY MESSENGER

CYNTHIA BASSETT/Messenger Post Staff September 24, 2002

Handwriting expert Donald Lacy's list of cases includes the JonBenet Ramsey homicide.

PENFIELD - After Donald Lacy of Penfield examined the ransom note that JonBenet Ramsey's parents said was left by the murderer of their 6-year-old daughter, he came to a different conclusion.

He concluded that the scrawled writing, though disguised, belonged to Patsy Ramsey, mother of the young Colorado girl slain in 1996.

Darnay Hoffman, a New York City lawyer, hired Lacy, a certified forensic document examiner, to determine who had written the ransom note when he brought several civil cases against the Ramseys on behalf of the Boulder, Colo. Police Department.

The cases are pending, but Lacy, who has been a self-employed handwriting analyst since 1974, now has a national reputation as one of the foremost forensic document examiners.

His expertise was developed during a long government career that included stints as a forensic medical examiner, special agent and special investigator.

Lacy, 74, has worked in counterfeit detection, counter-intelligence and technical surveillance for the FBI and the Office of Special Investigations.

Born in Chicago, Lacy grew up in Rochester before his work took him and his wife, Jessie, of 36 years, all over the world.

But he's pretty blasé about his international assignments - even when they involved KGB agents under surveillance.

"Everyone thinks of it like a cloak-and-dagger operation," Lacy said. "But sometimes it was pleasant. If the KGB agent we were following stopped for a beer, we'd have one, too."

Lacy was trained to be a document examiner in 1985 by the U.S. Secret Service Document School at the federal training center in Georgia. He said that many people mistake his aptitude with graphology, the study of handwriting to determine possible character traits.

In handwriting analysis, Lacy studies everything from the size and slant of letters, line flow and rhythm to personal embellishments, including where the "T" is crossed, to determine authorship of the writing on checks, titles, wills and other contested documents.

"Although handwriting is not as reliable as fingerprints, it still reveals personal idiosyncrasies," said Lacy.

He uses infrared lights and sometimes chemical analysis of the ink to discover if the writing has been changed on documents.

Fairport Police Chief Brian Page used Lacy's services recently on a criminal investigation.

While Page said he'd never used a handwriting analyst before, Lacy's work certainly proved beneficial, even though the investigation on this particular case is continuing. "Mr. Lacy narrowed our suspects down from six possible to two probable ones," said Page.

Lacy has testified as an expert witness many times over the years in criminal court cases. In one case involving a suspected felon, he determined a man had changed the will of his godmother, naming himself as beneficiary.

Lacy said his findings also led to the conviction of a man in her drowning death, too.

Another peculiar case concerned a man who claimed a check cashed for a large sum of money contained a forged signature, even though the bank manager said the person cashing it looked exactly like the claimant.

As it turned out, an estranged twin brother had forged the signature and cashed the check.

"Even though they looked exactly alike, their handwriting didn't match," said Lacy.

Lacy also said he verified the authenticity of an 1894 antique car designed by Frank Duryea before it sold for $200,000 at Christy's auction house. He matched the writing from just three words contained on the car's floorboard to two personal letters written by Duryea in 1839 and 1842 to determine that both handwritings were his.

A few years ago, during a gas station robbery in Greece, the clerk was shot and killed. The suspected killer was arrested with a note in his possession that he claimed was his writing.

Lacy proved the note's writing belonged to the victim because it matched the handwritten worksheets she wrote at the gas station.

"He took the paper during the robbery because most crooks aren't usually too smart," said Lacy. "That's why we're in business."


©Daily Messenger 2002


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Joyce
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Sep-25-02, 04:44 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Handwriting studies"
In response to message #0
 
   >While everyone agrees John Ramsey did not write the note,
>Patsy Ramsey cannot be eliminated as the author of the
>ransom note, not even by her own experts.

From what it has seemed to be, I now think that the writer of the note may have thought that other writing on the pad was John Ramsey's and hir wanted to point a finger at John, therefore tried to copy the style of the handwriting on the pad, and it turned out of be Patsy's instead.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-24-02, 09:41 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Handwriting studies"
In response to message #4
 
   I posted several samples in the past - and every time people jumped at the similarities. Want to see a couple? Two of these areobviously NOT the authorof the note. The third is written by someone who will swear she DID write the note - that it was written as part of a book and taken by a friend. There are similarities between all of these samples and the ransom note. None of these people are suspects.

(Before you cry foul, I have seem Oliva's handwriting and posted a sample - - there are similarities. Chris Wolf could not be eliminated based on his handwriting. Others couldn't be cleared either - others with histories of mental illness and violence. But for now I share these three samples to make a point.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-24-02, 09:43 PM (EST)
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6. "the third sample"
In response to message #5
 
  


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-26-02, 04:24 PM (EST)
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7. "look here"
In response to message #6
 
   This is a copy of the letter the sniper recently left cops in the DC area. Now there is NO WAY I am linking him to the Ramsey murder - - but I bet that some of his letters and words are a close match to some of the letters and words in the Ramsey Ransom note. Bet some could be "superimposed" and prove a match.

(After all, how many ways can anyone make an i, or an l, or a w, or any other letter? Some people really have DIFFERENT handwriting - - but the person who wrote the ransom note and probably killed JonBenét writes like a LOT of other people. I think it is going to be differences that identify the author of the note - - not the similarities.


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jamesonadmin
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Oct-30-02, 08:25 PM (EST)
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8. "lou - from 48 hours"
In response to message #7
 
   Erin Moriarty speaking to Lou Smit: "But if someone had been targeting JonBenét Ramsey, wouldn't he
at least bring the paper and pencil to write this ransom note, I mean...."

Lou Smit: "They probably wouldn't bring it in. Why would you bring something in that can be traced
back to your house where you have actual the pen and the ink and you have the paper right there
that it
was written on?"

Erin Moriarty: "But you can't count on finding that in the house."

Lou Smit: "Can't count on it. Most houses have that."

Erin Moriarty: "No expert could eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the writer of the ransom note. That's
damning isn't it?"

Lou Smit: "No not at all. You're always going to have similarities in handwriting. To sit down and write
a note like that, with all of those details in there after brutally killing your daughter, you'd never done
that before? Come on, give me a break."


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