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jamesonadmin
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11546 posts
May-18-03, 10:10 PM (EST)
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"Thomas depo 47 - the knife"
 
  
Q. There was a pocket knife found on the basement counter?

A. Which I learned later, right.

Q. And was that ever sourced, to your knowledge?

A. No. My recollection of that is terribly vague because I don't know when we talked about those
thousand-plus pieces of evidence collected, those were potential pieces of evidence, I think that the
pocket knife may have been collected, but I don't know. There was the suggestion that I overheard
that that belonged to Burke.

Q. Was that ever sourced to Burke?

A. Not prior to me leaving.


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Thomas depo 47 - the knife [View All], jamesonadmin, 10:10 PM, May-18-03, (0)  
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Margoo
Member since Nov-29-02
601 posts
May-18-03, 10:12 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Thomas depo 47 - the knife"
In response to message #0
 
   Is the owner of the knife still an unknown?


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jamesonadmin
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11546 posts
May-19-03, 00:38 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Thomas depo 47 - the knife"
In response to message #1
 
   I don't know. Last i knew, the Ramseys had not been shown the knife or asked to identify it. Since Burke owned a jack knife the BPD simply let everyone believe they had identified it - - but now we can see that wasn't the case.

The BPD didn't share much with the Ramseys - - that is a myth - - one of several blown away by this deposition.


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Maikai
unregistered user
May-19-03, 09:33 PM (EST)
 
3. "What about LHP?"
In response to message #2
 
   I thought she was the one that identified it as being the one she took from Burke (without telling anyone), and hid in the closet where the pullups were?


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jamesonadmin
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11546 posts
May-19-03, 09:42 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: What about LHP?"
In response to message #3
 
   That was the rumor - - guess it wasn't the God's honest truth.


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DonBradley
unregistered user
May-21-03, 12:57 PM (EST)
 
5. "Significant"
In response to message #0
 
   Its either something that was already in the home or its not.
If its not something that belonged there then it was either left inadvertantly by someone who may have needed it to cut the string that bound the Christmas tree or something or it was left by the killer, either accidentally or intentionally.

Would he have needed a pocket knife?
No. Tape was torn, not cut...though we know its easier if you 'start' it with a little nick. Cord was cut, but we assume it was cut earlier from a spool.

Would anything be gained by leaving a pocket knife lying around, so as to implicate anyone?
No.

I think it was just: you have a murder and even though the victim does not appear to have been stabbed you seize weapons that are nearby the corpse simply because that is the thing to do.


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Margoo
Member since Nov-29-02
601 posts
May-21-03, 01:49 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Significant"
In response to message #5
 
   >
>Would he have needed a pocket knife?
>No. Tape was torn, not cut...though we know its easier if
>you 'start' it with a little nick. Cord was cut, but we
>assume it was cut earlier from a spool.
>


Many people - without even thinking - will use their teeth to start that "little nick" in the tape. DNAX?????


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DonBradley
unregistered user
May-21-03, 05:34 PM (EST)
 
7. "Dna from tape?"
In response to message #6
 
   >Many people - without even thinking - will use their teeth
>to start that "little nick" in the tape. DNAX?????

I had considered that and rejected it for two reasons: mainly, this perpetrator just doesn't seem to be that stupid as to put saliva on the tape, thats like licking the postage stamp and then mailing the threatening letter. The other reason was that by the time that tape had been on the carpet, in Fleet's hands and in the cop's hands, it was probably not worth much as 'evidence' anyway but whatever it was worth as evidence would not have taken so long to be developed.


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Margoo
Member since Nov-29-02
601 posts
May-21-03, 07:15 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Dna from tape?"
In response to message #7
 
   >>Many people - without even thinking - will use their teeth
>>to start that "little nick" in the tape. DNAX?????
>
>I had considered that and rejected it for two reasons:
>mainly, this perpetrator just doesn't seem to be that stupid
>as to put saliva on the tape, thats like licking the postage
>stamp and then mailing the threatening letter. The other
>reason was that by the time that tape had been on the
>carpet, in Fleet's hands and in the cop's hands, it was
>probably not worth much as 'evidence' anyway but whatever it
>was worth as evidence would not have taken so long to be
>developed.

True, indeed, DB, but .. we're talking about the BPD. Didn't Beckner give the impression (in his depo) that the DNAX was from something they already had in evidence. Perhaps it had not occurred to them to check the piece of duct tape - beyond the fiber evidence - prior to 1999.

But, OTH, your point about multiple handling of that piece of duct tape is worth noting as well as the perp didn't seem to be stupid enough to (mindlessly) put that tape to mouth to help initiate the tear. BUT ... you just never know.

(PS - I've wondered if the "DNAX thing" was just a new/improved form of testing on something that might have been previously tested.)


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DonBradley
unregistered user
May-21-03, 09:16 PM (EST)
 
9. "RE: Dna from tape?"
In response to message #8
 
   >I've wondered if the "DNAX thing" was just a new/improved form of
>testing on something that might have been previously tested.
Probably. In the interim there were articles on testing cryptic dna obtained from a ligature, but the article dealt with a simulation in a laboratory, not an actual case.

I think you are right about having to remember that this was the BPD. Competence and dedication are not likely, but since this evidence could have helped their case against the parents they would have been likely to proceed promptly.


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jamesonadmin
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11546 posts
Jun-04-03, 00:54 AM (EST)
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10. "What if?"
In response to message #9
 
   If the Ramseys were shown the knife now - and the other evidence - that may help the investigators sort out what the killer brought and what was already in the house.

Needs to be done - - probably has been already.


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unsure
unregistered user
Jun-04-03, 03:40 AM (EST)
 
11. "RE: What if?"
In response to message #10
 
   Do you feel that Boulder really wants to solve this crime? Doesn't every step forward that the Ramseys make, the politicians and law enforcement of Boulder get knocked back a peg? In my opnion, Boulder seems to be in a no win situation, if they don't solve this crime they look incompetent and if they do solve the crime without arresting a Ramsey they prove their neglience? I can see that the DA's office would be more open to solving this case, but they still have to live there. Aren't there still influential people collecting paycheques that might not want it known how badly they perform their jobs?


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Maikai
unregistered user
Jun-04-03, 05:58 AM (EST)
 
12. "Yes, unsure......"
In response to message #11
 
   the threat of a lawsuit must have been in many minds, once it came out the crime scene was contaminated that very first day.....and then the Ramseys got attorneys (good ones), very early on, and their own investigators. What a blow to some egos----besides being publically embarrassed, this "rich" family didn't want anything to do with the police---at least not on the police's terms.


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DonBradley
unregistered user
Jun-04-03, 06:23 AM (EST)
 
13. "RE: What if?"
In response to message #11
 
   >Aren't there still influential people collecting paycheques that
>might not want it known how badly they perform their jobs?
Yes.
DA Keenan is not going to be popular, but most of the incompetents have safe jobs anyway.


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unsure
unregistered user
Jun-04-03, 10:40 AM (EST)
 
14. "RE: What if?"
In response to message #13
 
   Safe jobs or not there is a lynch mob out there quickly running out of a trophy. Now wouldn't that be justice for the Ramseys if they get focused on the other guys. lol


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