A. In the entire department?

Q. I think I'm pretty clear, sir, in the Boulder Police Department, the detective department of the
Boulder police.

A. As I asked, that the detective -- there is a detective department and then there is a uniform
department where --

Q. I think my question said in the detective department.

A. In the detective department I think the most experienced homicide investigator was likely
Detective Sergeant Tom Wickman.

Q. As I understand it initially Tom Trujillo and Linda Ardnt were the two designated co-lead
detectives on the case, JonBenet Ramsey case, true?

A. Yes.

Q. And then after Arndt was removed, did Tom Wickman take that place, did he become the lead
detective?

A. Tom Wickman or Tom Trujillo?

Q. You tell me whether it was Wickman or Trujillo.

A. No, because there was no real designation at that point.

Q. Were you ever designated by the department as the lead detective or co-lead detective on the
case?

A. There were four or five detectives who were designated as primary detectives who worked this
case full time with no other assignments.

Q. My question was were you ever designated by the Boulder Police Department as the lead
detective or a co-lead detective on the JonBenet Ramsey case?

A. No, after Ardnt left -- actually, prior to Arndt leaving, that designation was not being used in the
manner you describe it.

Q. The two shootings that you were involved in while you were with the Boulder Police Department,
do you know whether the department itself investigated those two shootings?

A. I don't know the inception of a unit called the Boulder County Shoot Team, when that came into
being but it was either investigated by the Boulder County Shoot Team or the Boulder Police
Department.

A. Successfully and at times unsuccessfully, yes.

Q. In the successful interviews, did you prepare reports?

A. No.

Q. Would that be because there was nothing significant said to you during those interviews by her?

A. Typically police don't prepare, at least it's been my experience, prepare reports when simply
speaking to or asking for a clarification from a fellow officer.

Q. I was talking about an interview more than a clarification.

A. No, did I ever sit down with her for a formal interview? No.

Q. Did you ever try to?

A. No, when I had questions, it was fairly routine just to go to the detective in question and make
your inquiry.

A. Primarily, because at one point she discontinued talking to some of us.

Q. She actually did more than that. She told you that she didn't have any recollection anymore about
what she saw that day, didn't she?

A. She made that statement or something very close to that.

A. I think there were concerns about Arndt that ultimately led to her removal from this investigation.

Q. My question was, sir, and let me repeat it for you if it was not clear. Are you aware of any
concerns in the Boulder Police Department about a relationship that developed between Barbara Fernie
and Linda Arndt?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell me what the nature of those concerns were.

A. As I recall, I think that there was some feeling that Linda Arndt had gone outside her police hat,
so to speak, and was involving herself emotionally with Barbara Fernie.

Q. And potentially romantically or sexually?

A. Never have I heard anything like that.

A. Let me look real quick.

Q. A full year had passed before he completed his report of the initial Atlanta trip?

A. Yeah, help me out with the question.

Q. The question is coming up. "Trujillo and Arndt still were not speaking, and the sergeant who
reported the undisturbed snow now filed an amended report." Who was that sergeant?

A. That was Sergeant Reichenbach.

Q. And "The first officer was having difficulty in recollecting certain events." What officer was
that?

A. That was officer French.

Q. And "Then Arndt began amending her reports, too"; is that true?

A. Yes.

Q. When was the initial Atlanta trip?

A. I believe that was January 1st through 5th of 1997.

A. Yes.

Q. Who was that agent?

A. I believe that was Ken Lanning.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did the -- I mean, there is a level of animosity between the two of you and that's probably
politely stated; wouldn't you agree?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did that start? Did it exist before the Ramsey case?

A. I didn't know Hunter before the Ramsey case.

Q. When in the scale of things do you think you can say to yourself that you formulated opinions that
you hold about Alex Hunter? And you don't have to answer for him I'll ask him at the appropriate
time. I want to know when you felt like you were sitting there thinking I can't believe a word this man
speaks?

A. Mr. Wood, that was a -- certainly there was a culture inside the police department that existed
years or a couple of decades before I even arrived there in which the DA's office and the police
department had a terrible working relationship. But not knowing Mr. Hunter until our involvement on
this case together, that was very incremental in fashion or incremental in stages, but by the time I left
the police department, it was certainly at its height. I was very dismayed and disappointed and had no
love for Hunter after some of these revelations by Shapiro.

A. 181.

Q. 181, you make reference to three FBI agents, intruder theory?

A. Help me. Where on the page?

Q. I'm looking myself. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm looking at the paperback. 161, I apologize. Do you see
where it starts "Three FBI agents"?

A. Yes.

Q. What I want to know is if you can date that for me? "'The case is not being handled well,' said
the CASKU agents."

A. Shortly before I believe the Ramseys' April 30, 1997 interview.

Q. Can you identify the three agents for me?

A. Supervisory special agent Bill Hagmaier, special agent Mike Morrow, and their partner and the
third special agent, his name just escapes me at the moment.

Q. And those three agents prior to April 30, 1997 said that the intruder theory was absurd, Hofstrom
needs to act like a prosecutor not a public defender. Don't do tomorrow's interview and get a grand
jury as soon as possible, right?

A. Yes.

As you can see, experience was not one of the most important considerations in Boulder when they were picking people to lead the Ramsey investigation.

9 Q Thank you. Do you know why you came to be

10 the individual selected to be in charge of the Ramsey

11 investigation in October of '97?

12 A I mean, I have a pretty good idea why.

13 Q Tell me what that pretty good idea is.

14 A I don't want to answer for Chief Koby

15 obviously.

16 Q What is your understanding and belief is

17 what I'm asking, I'm not asking for Chief Koby?

18 A Some of what I am good at is coordinating

19 and organizing, I mean managing large-scale events

20 and I think that was part of the reason that Chief

21 Koby tabbed me at that time. There was some concerns

22 about the coordination and organization of the

23 investigation. And I think he saw those abilities in

24 me and thought that I could bring some better

25 organization to the investigation itself.

19

1 There was also some conflict between the

2 DA's office and the police department at that time

3 and he felt like I could ease some of those

4 relationships and improve those relationships.

5 Q And I don't mean this disrespectfully but

6 I guess you would agree with me that you weren't

7 brought in to be in charge of the Ramsey

8 investigation in October of '97 because of your

9 experience in dealing with homicides?

10 A No.

11 Q You would agree with me, wouldn't you?

12 A I would agree with you.