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jamesonadmin
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May-17-03, 03:27 PM (EST)
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"Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-17-03 AT 03:27 PM (EST)
 
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) When was Steven Pitt hired?

A. I don't know if Pitt came to the investigation through the district attorney's office or through
Sergeant Wickman but I recall Mr. -- or Dr. Pitt being on scene or being in Boulder, being involved
with the investigation was it summer of 1997 maybe. I don't know for sure.

Q. Was there any plan or strategy on the part of Boulder Police Department or any other law
enforcement agencies to try to put pressure on the Ramseys through the public?

A. I think so.

Q. And wasn't that part of what Steven Pitt was there to do?

A. I don't know what his employment agreement or what his motivations were for being there, but
he certainly offered advice.

Q. On that issue?

A. Yes.

Q. And isn't it true that Lou Smit's approach to build a bridge with the Ramseys really was in conflict
with the Boulder Police Department's strategy of putting public pressure on them?

A. Yes.

Q. And the FBI was involved, Bill Hagmaier, who I happened to know from Richard Jewell's case?

A. Great guy.

Q. Yeah, wrong on Richard Jewell, wrong on Ramsey, that's consistent. Mr. Hagmaier was
involved in the formulation of this plan of public pressure on the Ramseys, wasn't he?

A. I believe there were discussions with the FBI, yes, about how to exert some public pressure on
people who are not cooperating, yes.

Q. Part of that was to try to portray them clearly to the public as being uncooperative and therefor
appearing to be possibly involved in the death of their daughter, right?

A. I think it was two different things. I don't think they were necessarily trying to further paint them
as uncooperative. I think they were using the media to get them back in to help us with the case.

Q. Were they also thinking that they might use the media to apply pressure so that there might be a
possibility that one of the parents might confess involvement in the crime? Was that ever discussed?

A. That may have been -- that may have been some motivations.

Q. Do you believe from your recollections that that was discussed?

A. I wouldn't disagree with it. I don't have any concise, clear recollection of a conversation like that.


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Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN [View All], jamesonadmin, 03:27 PM, May-17-03, (0)  
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jamesonadmin
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May-23-03, 04:43 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #0
 
   So here we have the evidence that there really were discussions on how to play to the public - to put pressure on the Ramseys.

Those people were attacked in numerous ways - - anything to stir up the pond and bring some dirt to the top - - but none ever came out.

Why no comments on many of these threads? This is the truth, people, it is time to discuss all of it.


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Smokey
unregistered user
May-23-03, 05:16 PM (EST)
 
2. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #1
 
   The case against Patsy was made up out of thin air. It's incredible that hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent on something so profoundly illegal, unethical and immoral.

I realize Lin Wood told Mary Keenan he wouldn't exercise his option to sue the BPD if she would put the investigation in competent hands, is the way I understood it, but after reading these depositions I can barely control my extreme disgust for what was done by a law enforcement agency to people they were supposed to 'protect and serve.'

I think Beckner is history when all this comes out...and by the way, when will the Boulder Daily Camera be covering the release of the depositions?

LOL I guess they are afraid to. Hard to put a positive spin on something so ugly and fraudulent done with taxpayer's money.


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jamesonadmin
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May-23-03, 05:18 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #2
 
   It seems the media isn'tinterested in covering the Ramsey case when the news can't be spun BORG.


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Smokey
unregistered user
May-23-03, 05:23 PM (EST)
 
4. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #3
 
   The media is only making any case Lin Wood eventally files that much stronger by refusing to cover what amounts to Patsy's true exoneration.


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one_eyed Jack
Member since May-7-03
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May-23-03, 07:26 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #1
 
   >So here we have the evidence that there really were
>discussions on how to play to the public - to put pressure
>on the Ramseys.
>
>Those people were attacked in numerous ways - - anything to
>stir up the pond and bring some dirt to the top - - but none
>ever came out.
>
>Why no comments on many of these threads? This is the
>truth, people, it is time to discuss all of it.

I'm sure LE uses the media to put pressure on suspects more often than is commonly known. It just goes to show that the public needs to investigate before they form an opinion.

Oh, you know journalists were doing their absolute best to find dirt on the Ramsys. When they couldn't find it, they made it up. There is obviously a lucrative market, and that is very sad. What is even sadder is that even if the perp is arrested, convicted, and given the death sentence, there will still be a segment of society that will firmly believe the Ramseys got away with murder. Not because they care what happened that night but because they love the sensationalism.

I can sure see why Lin resisted the polygraphs being done by the FBI. The most knowledgable FBI agent in this type of crime is Kenneth Lanning, and he stated not to rule out a sexual predator. Thomas didn't want to avail himself of the wisdom and experience of Lanning anymore than he wanted to listen to Lou Smit. He only wanted to hear what fit his theory. It's almost beyond belief.


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Smokey
unregistered user
May-23-03, 07:40 PM (EST)
 
6. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #5
 
   When I first read the deposition, it was so upsetting I couldn't even sleep. I can't even imagine how betrayed and angry the Ramseys might feel as victims of this fraud at their expense.


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unsure
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May-23-03, 11:00 PM (EST)
 
7. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #6
 
   This was a lot of information to just read. I also feel there should have been a lot more media coverage of this deposition, but does that make sense?
I can just see the headlines now:
WE WERE LIED TO BY THE POLICE
and just stupid enough to run wild with it.

WE MADE A BIG BOO BOO AND WENT AFTER THE WRONG PEOPLE! now believe us while we try and make it better.

WE VICTIMIZED THE VICTIMS!

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, YOU WON'T BE WITHOUT A LAWYER IN THE FUTURE, BUT THE WAY WE ACTED YOU WON'T AUTOMATICALLY LOOK GUILTY NOW!

WE WERE TURNED INTO TABLOIDS BY THE POLICE WITH THE FBI'S HELP.

SPECIAL FEATURE: EQUAL TIME FOR THE RAMSEYS, WATCH FOR THE NEXT 6 YEARS AS THEY HELP US SPIN LIES ABOUT THE POILCE!


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jamesonadmin
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May-23-03, 11:17 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #7
 
   The media has to continue to deal with the BPD - - writing negative things won't make life easier for them - - they DO take that into consideration when deciding what to write.

If the Ramsey case was new and still exciting, they might do more, but it seems old and cold to them so.... you can see how much coverage it got. Not a lot.


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Smokey
unregistered user
May-23-03, 11:57 PM (EST)
 
9. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #8
 
   I think the Ramsey case will ultimately change the way crimes are investigated and the way police interact with the media. Already police departments are using "person of interest" instead of suspect.

I don't know if that phrase is a whole lot different from saying "suspect", but it does show an awareness of the influence of police labels on public perceptions.


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jamesonadmin
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May-24-03, 00:00 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #9
 
   This is the first case that has had so much Internet interaction. it has been a lesson for everyone.


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Smokey
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May-24-03, 00:05 AM (EST)
 
11. "RE: Thomas depo 27 THE PLAN"
In response to message #10
 
   I think someday there will be a book written about the Ramsey case from the "What Went Wrong" point of view - and the media will sigh and murmur about the terrible injustice done to the Ramsey family, while taking no responsibility, as usual.


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Myself
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May-25-03, 05:56 PM (EST)
 
12. "not surprised"
In response to message #11
 
   Why am I not surprised?
The contents of the deposition here in this thread don't surprise me at all..


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Maikai
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Jun-07-03, 10:11 AM (EST)
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13. "Bill Hagmier....interesting that he was"
In response to message #12
 
   also involved in the Richard Jewell case....this is one of the first articles about the Quantico "briefing."

FBI briefs D.A. on meeting
Hunter's office: arrest not imminent in Ramsey case
By ALLI KRUPSKI
Camera Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 10, 1997

Boulder police and district attorney representatives investigating the JonBenet Ramsey homicide emerged from a meeting with the FBI in Virginia on Tuesday saying there's still work to be done in the case.

"An arrest is not imminent," said Suzanne Laurion, spokeswoman for the Boulder County District Attorney's office.

Members of the Boulder Police Department and the district attorney's office reviewed the case over the past two days with agents from the FBI's Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit in Quantico, Va. The approximately 4-hour meeting Tuesday involved 16 people, according to FBI spokesman Kurt Crawford. The gathering included chief trial deputy Peter Hofstrom, senior trial deputy Trip DeMuth, retired Colorado Springs homicide investigator Lou Smit, Boulder Police Sgt. Tom Wickman and police detectives Jane Harmer, Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo and Ron Gosage.

The FBI has assisted investigators throughout the Ramsey case. Patsy Ramsey, the girl's mother, reported finding a ransom note demanding $118,000 on Dec. 26 and called police. About eight hours later, John Ramsey, the girl's father, and a friend discovered the 6-year-old strangled and gagged with duct tape in the basement of her home.

Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter did not attend the conference because the investigators discussed only "the physical evidence collected thus far."

But Bill Hagmaier, chief of the FBI's Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit, briefed Hunter on the meetings.

"The FBI provided much valuable input in terms of investigative approaches and directions," Hunter said in a prepared statement.

Hagmaier praised the officials investigating the murder, Hunter said.

"... he was impressed by the uniformly high level of commitment, as well as the firm grasp on the issues that was exhibited by both police officers and attorneys working the case."

Meanwhile, Crawford said he couldn't reveal details of the meeting.

"I thought it went well, from what I could tell," Crawford said.

Crawford noted that law enforcement agencies often consult with the FBI.

"They (FBI agents) are basically information brokers," Crawford said. "They learn from other cases and pass it on."

(They learn from other cases? Didn't they learn from Richard Jewell? Or did they learn that putting tainted information out will affect public opinion? I can see a "mistake" once----but to repeat it in the Ramsey case?)


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Maikai
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Jun-07-03, 10:20 AM (EST)
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14. "More on Hagmaier"
In response to message #0
 
   Nightmare Alley
To catch killers, FBI profiler William Hagmaier probes the dark side of the human psyche
ACROSS THE HILLS OF SPOTSYLVANIA, where Robert E. Lee once tangled with U.S. Grant, death again haunts the Virginia countryside. This time the fallen aren't soldiers but three slender, dark-haired girls-a serial killer's prey. Their murders might never have been connected- much less become one of the country's most closely watched ies-- save for a single fact: The girls lived within a few miles of William Hagmaier, chief of the FBI's Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit and a veteran criminal profiler.

"I couldn't sleep, but then I never sleep much anyway," says Hagmaier, 50, a workaholic father of two accustomed to limitted shut-eye and late dinners, frequently interrupted by calls from frantic parents of missing children. "Lots of people were suspicious that these cases were related, and it bothered me." Late one night last July, Hagmaier phoned the director of the state forensics lab and asked him to take another look at the evidence in the first of the slayings, that of 16-year-old Sofia Silva in September 1996. His instincts were right. Fiber tests linking a suspect, Karl Roush, to the Silva case were flawed. Embarrassed prosecutors swiftly dropped charges against Roush, who had been in jail when Kristin Lisk, 15, and her sister Kati, 12, were killed last May.

Hagmaier's hunches are often correct. "He is the smartest cop I've ever met," says author Tom Clancy, who turned to him for technical advice when writing his 1993 crime thriller Without Remorse. "He is brilliant looking around a crime scene. He'll say, 'White male, 36 to 40,' and he's always right. Somehow he just reads people."

Credit decades of studying the darkest corners of the psyche. Since joining the FBI in May 1978, the Pittsburgh native, who holds a master's degree in psychology, has logged countless hours constructing meticulous criminal profiles by analyzing crime scenes, peering through a magnifying glass at grisly photos of victims, poring over autopsy and police reports-all in the hope of finding the tiny detail that might trip up a killer. "He used to bring cases home and view the films here--I would walk in and see this person stabbed to death on the screen," says Hagmaier's wife, Barbara, 46, a former special education teacher. "I told him, 'I don't want to see dead people. Do that at work.'"

But for Hagmaier and the 29 agents under his command since December 1994, it's hard to put the job behind them when they leave their Quantico, Va., office. They know their quarry doesn't stop working at 5 p.m. "Today Is serial killer and child abductor is far more sophisticated than those we found 10 years ago," says Hagmaier, whose unit is currently tracking some 30 serial killers but estimates there may be as many as three times that number on the loose. "The bad guys used to read detective magazines to learn how other people are caught. Now we've got books by former law enforcement people, reenactment TV, movies."

Often the resources at the disposal of the serial killer-typically a white male loner in his 20s, with superior intelligence, who thinks of himself as engaged in an endgame of wits with his pursuers-shame those of the average cop. Pointing out that more than half

the police departments in the U.S. consist of fewer than 10 officers, "they can very quickly become overwhelmed," Hagmaier says. "They haven't been exposed to these predators, who are very sophisticated and transient."

To help even the odds, as of March 1996 the FBI stopped waiting 24 hours before intervening in cases of child abduction-a critical step since these young victims usually perish within the first day and a half. "This could make the difference between life or death," says Hagmaier. "I'll put my people on a plane anywhere." In October his squad started shipping out 17,500 new Child Abduction Response Plan workbooks that show local police, step by step, how to investigate and interview suspects and how to avoid contaminating a crime scene. And he lobbies tirelessly for mandatory centralized reporting of violent crimes, which would improve the FBI's chances of identifying similar cases in different states that might be the work of a serial killer.

In the meantime some of the most potent weapons in Hagmaier's arsenal come from the unlikeliest of sources. Whether out of hubris or remorse, a number of killers, like the five imprisoned murderers he is currently debriefing, have provided invaluable insights into what makes them tick. "Why shouldn't we listen to them," he asks, "if it will save lives?"

For four unforgettable, draining days in January 1989, Hagmaier heard the death-row confessions of Ted Bundy who in his final hours admitted killing at least 30 women and girls. "Bundy brought with him files of newspaper clippings, manuals on police techniques and law enforcement material I didn't even know existed," says Hagmaier. "He wanted me to understand how sophisticated serial killers have become. The ones that get caught are greedy, cocky, drunk or stupid." Or, in Bundy's case, just plain unlucky. Scrupulous about not leaving bodily fluids on his victims, Bundy was nipped by bite marks; journals had yet to report that they could be matched. "As a student of criminal behavior, obviously I found him intriguing and informative, " Hagmaier says. "He went to places I'll never go."

But once you've visited these places, even vicariously, you're never quite the same, the agent admits. "As I was dressing my children for church, I got a call from the mother of a 9-year-old," Hagmaier remembers.

"She said, 'You know they found Jimmy in three different pieces.' What do you say? These aren't cases you can put in a drawer and go home."

Especially not now, when Hagmaier's own backyard has become an edgy encampment. Ever since the murders of the Lisk sisters, school buses are trailed by anxious parents scribbling down the license plate numbers of passing strangers, youngsters rarely stray outside, and, over at the historic Spotsylvania Courtliouse, a task force including three or four of Hagmaier's troops operates seven days a week. "When this happened, it was like a storm coming through the area and uprooting souls, hearts and minds," says Maj. Howard Smith of the county sheriff's office. "Bill threw himself into the case to help us."

"The way I look at it is that we all try to make a qualitative difference in life", Hagmaier says. "I know I can no longer be the best baseball player there ever was. I'm never going to be the brightest FBI agent. The most important thing is that when I kiss my little girl good-night-and others can't -that I do something about it."

PAM LAMBERT .

JANE SIMS PODESTA in Spottsylvania


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Smokey
unregistered user
Jun-09-03, 01:08 PM (EST)
 
15. "RE: THE PLAN and Steven Pitt"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-09-03 AT 01:10 PM (EST)
 
Pitt and the Pendulum
The JonBenet case, shrink-wrapped by Valley forensic psychiatrist and sleuth Steven Pitt

BY PAUL RUBIN

Boulder, Colorado
Alex Hunter retreats to his office after one of the biggest press conferences of his life.

It's October 14, 1999, and the Boulder County district attorney has just been grilled about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case in front of a live national audience. The day before, Hunter had told a disappointed nation that a yearlong effort by an investigative grand jury had ended where it began -- no one charged with bludgeoning the 6-year-old.

All things considered, Hunter seems to be feeling pretty good about himself. The 61-year-old is still standing after going toe-to-toe with a horde of reporters, many of whom have been covering the tiny beauty queen's homicide since her body was discovered in the basement of her Boulder home in December 1996.

Hunter's team of prosecutors -- attorneys from his office and on loan from other agencies -- huddle around a television set. It's moments before Colorado's governor will hold his own press conference to announce that he may ask yet another set of prosecutors to review the case.

Hunter chats in a hallway with Steven Pitt, a Phoenix forensic psychiatrist who's served as a key consultant to the D.A. and the Boulder Police Department on the Ramsey case since February 1997.

Pitt's work in this case is finished unless something new breaks. But the shrink is here to observe the media circus.

A few weeks earlier, Pitt gave Hunter a list of 100 questions that he suspected the media might pose after the grand jury retired. Many of his predicted questions were on the money, though, surprisingly, no one asked his more confrontational ones.

Example: How do you justify and/or explain the inordinate amount of time you spent talking with tabloid reporters?

Another example: Do you feel you owe the Ramseys an apology?

"Hey, Alex," Pitt tells Hunter in the hall, "I don't think it was an intruder with that girl you were talking about out there."

"Really?" Hunter replies.

Most of the nation knows the nuts-and-bolts of JonBenet's murder, a case whose grip on the American psyche has been relentless: Her parents always have been the chief suspects. They claim an intruder did it.

But Pitt isn't talking about the Ramsey case.

At the press conference, a reporter had asked Hunter, "You referred to a killer or killers. Three years after this homicide, do you know whether there is one or more suspects, and should Boulder parents be worried about the safety of their children?"

". . . You're asking me to speculate, and I don't think that's appropriate," the prosecutor had replied. "There's a story this morning in the local paper about a break-in in an apartment and an attempted assault -- an assault. I think citizens need to be diligent, protectant of themselves and their children at all times."

A day earlier, as the grand jury ended its frustrating labors, Pitt and two Boulder police detectives in the Ramsey case had found themselves in the middle of another whodunit.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/1999-10-21/news.html/1/index.html


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