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Forum Name: more and more JBR
Topic ID: 932
#0, Child beauty pageants
Posted by pageants on Apr-19-03 at 12:27 PM
Do you think that Patsy took JonBenet's pageants a little too far? Or do you think they were a good way to help her build self-esteem & win scolarship money? Why? Why not?

#1, Don't know....
Posted by Maikai on Apr-19-03 at 12:44 PM
In response to message #0
they seem harmless enough, except for the sickos of the world that like little girls. I don't think they're particularly popular in Boulder--'course neither is makeup. Diane Sawyer and Oprah Winfrey both participated in pageants, and it didn't hurt their careers.

Lots of fun facts and information on this website:


#2, On the other hand, mix into
Posted by Maikai on Apr-19-03 at 12:47 PM
In response to message #1
the equation, a rich daddy, along with a little girl that had been highy visible the month she was murdered. It's apparent JBR was doted upon, IMO----I don't think it was the beauty pageant business alone that motivated the perp.

#3, Pageants are nothing more
Posted by jameson on Apr-19-03 at 01:17 PM
In response to message #2
than a theatrical production. I don't think there was anything wrong with JonBenét playing "dress up", singing and dancing for her family and friends.

The killer may or may not have spotted her at a pageant - the ransom note didn't indicate he had. He could have spotted her playing in her own neighborhood - that's how Jesse Timmendequas targetted Megan Kanka. Or seen her at school or at a 4-H meeting or at the store buying groceries or new shoes.

Patsy and Pam had enjoyed being in pageants. JonBenét enjoyed them. There was nothing wrong going on there.

#4, RE: Pageants are nothing more
Posted by Margoo on Apr-19-03 at 03:22 PM
In response to message #3
I don't see much difference between Pageants and Dancing as an activity for a daughter, except that pageants seem to cover more ground (public speaking, for example, and pageants include both singing and dancing). Both can increase the poise and confidence of a child. It's too bad that pageants are/were less popular. For that, there seems to be condemnation. From all that we have read, JonBenet seemed like a perfect candidate for pageant activity.

#24, RE: Pageants are nothing more
Posted by Oblivious on Apr-26-03 at 02:31 PM
In response to message #3
"Pageants are nothing more than a theatrical production. I don't think there was anything wrong with JonBenét playing "dress up", singing and dancing for her family and friends.
The killer may or may not have spotted her at a pageant - the ransom note didn't indicate he had. He could have spotted her playing in her own neighborhood - that's how Jesse Timmendequas targetted Megan Kanka. Or seen her at school or at a 4-H meeting or at the store buying groceries or new shoes. Patsy and Pam had enjoyed being in pageants. JonBenét enjoyed them. There was nothing wrong going on there.

Nobody wants to point out the fact that putting makeup on a child that young has a severely damaging effect on the way they feel about themselves, they usually end up wearing makeup all the time because they don't feel as though they are as pretty as they know they can be.
They look in the mirror at themselves without makeup and see themselves in photos and on video and want to look like that all the time, wearing makeup is damaging enough to women who use it every day from adulthood-what would the effect be on someone who has worn it since childhood like JonBenet?

#5, RE: Child beauty pageants
Posted by Precious40 on Apr-19-03 at 06:59 PM
In response to message #0
If you choose the right pageant, it can do wonders for a childs self esteem. I think they are great. My girls LOVE it. And occasionally...so does my son. I have run into some bad ones, you just have to be careful and research them before you go in full steam ahead.

#6, RE: Child beauty pageants
Posted by DonBradley on Apr-19-03 at 08:08 PM
In response to message #5
>I have run into some bad ones, you just have to be careful and
>research them before you go in full steam ahead.
I don't know just what you mean by 'some bad ones'. Perhaps 'overly commercial' or something. I guess you could say the same thing about a dancercize class or a ballet class too. Something where the ballet teacher is more interested in the money than in the girls being happy or wants them on their toes or something.

I don't think pageants figured into this crime at all. I sure don't think that JonBenet was forced into anything. It was a fun activity and they could indulge her. If she had been a little bit older she would probably wanted a horse or something... and posters out there who couldn't afford a horse for their daughters would be condemning the Ramseys for sending JonBenet to an equestrian center.

#7, RE: Child beauty pageants
Posted by JBW on Apr-20-03 at 02:21 AM
In response to message #0

JonBenét loved pageants she was a performer. She was the spark light of the family. It's not the same without her. There were some pageants Patsy did not want to go to but JonBenét did. JonBenét first liked pageants when Patsy was judging a pageant and one of the other judge's look at JonBenét and said your going to be the next Ms. America. They got home and JonBenét wanted to do a pageant. patsy looked around and found some. This was Mother daughter fun. Something you do on a Saturday afternoon. JonBenét use to play the "Ms. America made up game" patsy would say here comes Miss. JonBenét Ramsey! She loved it. She got a kick out of it. It was all fun in games she would laugh and laugh. Now if anyone thinks pageants are sexual they need to have a psychological evaluation there is nothing sexual about them. it's just like little boys playing baseball. There was a small play at her school that JonBenét was in and she remembered every single line including all her classmates.

Patsy is a wonderful mother and she didn't take a thing to far. She's great!

#8, RE: Child beauty pageants
Posted by candle on Apr-20-03 at 08:04 PM
In response to message #7
I think Patsy and JonBenét both loved the pageants and they were a wonderful way for the two of them to bond. But it's not like the pageants were the center of thier lives like the media portrayed them to be.

The media saw JonBenét's participation in the pageants as a way to make a spicy juicy story they could twist. The rag mags in particular, although all branches of the media were guilty to different degrees.

#9, JBW, right for you, wrong for predators
Posted by Frank-e on Apr-21-03 at 11:26 AM
In response to message #8
"Now if anyone thinks pageants are sexual they need to have a psychological evaluation there is nothing sexual about them."

The unimaginable state of mind of a sexual child predator!
There are minds of child sexual fantasies out there!

The unimaginable state of mind of a religious Muslim sleeper terrorist!
There are minds of religious motivated murderers out there!

The unimaginable state of mind of a child murderer!
There are child murderers out there!

I have worked for the NEW RICH and they have blinders on; they want to be just RICH normal folks. The problem is: The NEW RICH live by false EXPECTATIONS of their new social enviroment. They expect all persons to think as they think and so engage a false sense of security. The NEW RICH are the most suceptable to SCAMS, SCHEMES and acts of violence.

Another mindset: We're blessed and God will protect us! The religious mindset is by far the most dangerous for the NEW RICH. First they desire the-I'm special to God-self deception and so only good (positive thinking) will occur to me and mine. Wrong. The religious conflict with God occurs with the NEW RICHES closed offed recognition of the prescence of God. An inability to see and hear outside their own intensified social highness, and so they do not see or hear the WARNING! God WARNS of our pending danger, but we see nor hear not if we're to great of self mind.

The family/social cacoon is: The greatest of danger due to their protection of the NEW RICH from any and all outside contacts, as well as, they offer up their own contacts as if they are to be the good an trusted, when in fact it may well not be so. Trust who? Example: White's contacts in Ramsey house. Others?

Ramsey high risk activities!
Normal folks!

#10, Columbia Pictures Television Executive
Posted by Frank-e on Apr-21-03 at 12:00 PM
In response to message #9
I worked for the President of what is now Sony's Television division. The President was a man named Herman of whom I managed a second home ranch for in Ventura county, California.

Where their are many examples, I'll just reduce it to a couple. First the Daughter whom was an Vice-President at Wells Fargo Bank in Los Angeles. she would always say, we're just normal folks.

Her mother also acted out the false representaion and she more than once put me and her in uncomfortable social scenes. The one that was the most obvious was on a shopping trip. Herman had asked me to take his wife shopping at the local small shops. She wanted to shop in antique and thrift type stores. She engaged a MC biker type guy when he offered a mink stole at a low price. No such mink stole was on display. The wife was tempted and conversed with this MC biker over the item.

Well, I nearly had to go to physical blows with the biker as he moved in closer to her, He told me to stay out of it, I told him no suck luck buddy. The Mrs. acted as if she could handle this Biker's advance. I never accompianed the Mrs. on another trip as such again.

The fact that Herman even drove a Jaguer around made me a little crazy! I never became comfortable for their safety and even began seeing where I was opening doors to strangers. Security did not exist for this 1 million a year base salary + Coca Cola board member worth millions. They just wanted to be NORMAL FOLKS.

The RICH and esp. the NEW RICH exist in a sort of double-sided loss. First by the words of Jesus, they are in deep trouble as to the Kingdom of Heaven. Second they're self-blinded to the level of evil predators out and around them seeking an OPPORTUNITY to engage their criminal developed MEANS from a constant MOTIVE.


#11, RE: Columbia Pictures Television Executi
Posted by Mikie on Apr-21-03 at 12:15 PM
In response to message #10
Sounds a little like that Kevin Kostner film, "Bodyguard".

#12, Yes and no-to lifeguard.
Posted by Frank-e on Apr-21-03 at 12:47 PM
In response to message #11
When One lives in the local of their home, not in their business setting as to employment. One has Saturday brunch with them, One goes out for a drive with, One goes horsebackriding with, One becomes close and personal as to be part of their home life.

I liked them, I was concerned for them, and yet I became disturbed about their constant drive to be normal folks out and about.

I was not their BODYGUARD, but if someone was to attack or act threatening, I would have without thought protected or defended one or all of them to the fulness of my ability. Not my job, but was my way, nice FOLKS. Just lived with false expectations.

The Herman ---- family wanted life to be Disneyland, IMO. All nice and safe. It never was, but daily they walked out with a display of wealth as well as a growing local recognition of them and ME!

The ME part became what ultimatly led to my leaving the families employment. I couldn't sustain the obvious weight of my concerns as to their public "normal folks" self deception. I was afraid that I would ultimatly be the avenue of a criminal PERP. I didn't need anew crisis in life.

People, actors, writers, business promoters, and local cons began to engage me in town, so I switched to the bigger Ventura for activity versus the smaller local Oak studded wealthy enclave, like Boulder.

Wealth draws flys!

Many doors and many eyes fall open and upon the NEW RICH. The greatest danger was to me the insiders bringing in PERPS. The Mrs. was the most likely person to engage trouble, she just didn't see the vunerability and criminal active willingness in the real world.

Work for the Old Rich only, at least they understand their limits.

#13, Word gets around!
Posted by Frank-e on Apr-21-03 at 01:29 PM
In response to message #12
Word gets around in towns like Boulder, newspapers/magazines write, locals rumor about, and the NEW RICH are a great subject of conversations. People move into areas of their churches, resturaunts, social activities, child care, schools and local events just to be there, near them. Talk about.

The Ramseys life, by its' very in and out associations makes the Police investigation a expensive nightmare. As well as, the PERFECT NEW RICH criminal focus profile for kidnappers.
A kidnapper's dream!
A kidnapper's perfect hidden forest of many trees to be!
A "foreign faction" kidnapper's perfect crime!

Elizabeth Smart was a-enter and grab-kidnapping, no reliigious signs or symbols left.
JBR's was a-enter and something went wrong with the grab-kidnapping with high written and symbolic evidence left behind communications. Why?

If, the kidnappers understands police thought on ransom notes being deceptive evidence; then the reverse becomes stronger esp, when the "foreign faction" speaks words in a backwards indirect manner of construction. An actual construction that to them and there cultures is perfectly understandable due to multi-generational development in required usage due to direct as unacceptable; direct as dangerous to oneself; direct as unable or loss of ability in time, and so a religious pressure to speak the truth; it's garbled, and yet it's perfectly truthful for those who have ears and minds to recognize the meanings of it in its'native context. No deception, but ignorance by the reader of the translated to English foreign languages indirect symbolic, and and so sign of indirect construction.

International writer using acceptable non-western foreign native construction of translated words as words, but also symbols as to signs depicting truth statements as to a numeral, word or paragraph, as well as, overall note. The writer did not decieve nor lie, but the foreign reader is too ignorant and or incapable due to IMPURITY so to comprehend the superior communication skills of the writer; so the HE thinks they all are in comparison to the foreign reader. A foreign centered superior mindset.

Foreign town is where post word gets around, to brag.

The test criteria should be: A British English educated group of Arabic religious from childhood Koran study, reanding and Islamic nation life.

#15, frank-e
Posted by JBW on Apr-21-03 at 10:28 PM
In response to message #9


The child predators and killers are the ones that need psychological evaluations! This can and does happen to poor parents too and middle class family's as well as the rich. The Ramsey's lived comfortably but not as rich as others thought.

#16, RE: frank-e
Posted by JBW on Apr-21-03 at 10:36 PM
In response to message #15
The people you work for seems interesting. I hope one day I make one million + a year! These people seem like normal people. The Mrs. just trying to save a couple bucks and after all the money she has kinda funny but, hey if you think you can get it for a couple bucks cheaper go for it of course be prepared for illegal progression.

Okay, let's get back to the case.

#21, Rich Parents endangerment of child.
Posted by Frank-e on Apr-22-03 at 11:25 AM
In response to message #15
>The child predators and killers are the ones that need
>psychological evaluations! This can and does happen to poor
>parents too and middle class family's as well as the rich.
>The Ramsey's lived comfortably but not as rich as others

The child predators and killers are the ones that need
>psychological evaluations!

Way too late for JonBenet Ramsey! O'well maybe next time, the next murdered NEW RICH child with parents that want to live normal folks lifestyles in quant little enclaves like Boulder, Please Mr. Pretator, get some counseling and be evaluated for us to live free like BIRDS with no one to eat us.

The Ramsey's lived comfortably but not as rich as others

JBW, if you say so, we'll all just blurr the level of what is RICH a nd what is CHILD ENDANGERMENT by parents desire to have a NORMAL FOLKS lifestyle. I don't disagree with the NEW RICH logic or reasoning wanting it for their children; I disagree with it as unattainable by the level of criminal activity around them. Wake up!

1,000,000,000 in sales at 1% for Ramsey would be 1 million that year plus stock increases? A thousand millions!

Look JBW, the NEW RICH have to BLURR their level of wealth, and yet, the security risks are determined by the increase of KNOWLEDGE of their wealth and the level of ACCESS to the family members.

The Ramseys can say and all their Ramseites can chant their song of distress, when in fact it was the Ramseys who needed the Counseling to break the New Rich normal folks syndrome that took their daughter's life. Elizabeth Smart ring a bell? Let us hire the bizarre and poor to show our charity too. The Ramseys had a open house, literally.

This can and does happen to poor
>parents too and middle class family's as well as the rich

Well, this does make the Ramsey's just NORMAL FOLKS for it is common to all income levels. Yet, does the desire to have an open house seem worth it today for the Ramseys pain and suffering in the loss of their beloved daughter?

Not common, to have the criminal numbers who consider NEW RICH like the Ramseys as unlawful targets. Women have a saying: It's just as easy to marry a rich man than a poor man! And so it was true 12-25/26-96: It was just as easy or easier with parents on the THIRD FLOOR to KIDNAPP JBR than the poor child sleeping with siblings with parents in the next room.

Dream on NEW RICH!

#14, RE: candle
Posted by JBW on Apr-21-03 at 10:22 PM
In response to message #8
Your right candle. The tabloid prints blonde hair green eyes 6 year old beauty queen with wealthy parents. Found slain in her parents 1.3 million dollar home. People think this can't happen but it has happen over and over.

#17, RE: Child beauty pageants
Posted by clem on Apr-22-03 at 06:37 AM
In response to message #0
A beauty pageant is all about money, making money, generating money. It is done by having little girls compete to see which one of them is the most beautiful.

Self esteem is an intrinsic value and is not instilled from physical beauty competition. (I can see it building ego, butts not self-esteem.) From appearances, the Ramseys had little need to be concerned about future college expenses.

#18, College Expenses
Posted by Breccia on Apr-22-03 at 09:31 AM
In response to message #17
Even in "very comfortable" families college students are often expected to contribute finanically by working part-time, or during school breaks, or by pursuing those scholarships available to them.

Among my friends this was especially true when the parents, like Patsy and John Ramsey, had "chipped in" toward their own college expenses. ....If I remember correctly, John Andrew Ramsey worked part-time as a waiter during his college time in Boulder. Haven't pulled out references but I seem to recall "Pizza Jay's" or something...

Although it may not be Necessary for the student to work, the parents may feel it is Beneficial for the student to contribute!

#19, RE: College Expenses
Posted by jameson on Apr-22-03 at 11:08 AM
In response to message #18
The Ramseys didn't have her in pageants for the money - - probably cost them more in travel and expenses than the prize money would ever be.

I mean, it's nice getting the college money, but the Ramseys didn't need it and I doubt that was part of the reason for doing it AT ALL.

#20, RE: Child beauty pageants
Posted by DonBradley on Apr-22-03 at 11:24 AM
In response to message #0
>Do you think that Patsy took JonBenet's pageants a little too far?
Not at all. It was an activity that JonBenet wanted, it was not at Patsy's urging or insistence.

>Or do you think they were a good way to help her build self-esteem
Don't think that entered into it at all. She didn't seem to need any self-esteem building and selected her own music for the cowboy sweetheart song, though obviously had to rely on adults to have the music purchased and re-cast in her vocal range. I think it was more just a 'something to do' such as dance class or whatever. No big deal about it.

> & win scolarship money?
I've no idea why this "win scholarship money" is even suggested here. I rather doubt that entered into their thoughts or into the thoughts of any of the other contestants or their parents.

A great many posters seem to feel that beauty pageants in general and kiddie pageants in particular are evil vile events filled with pedophiles who want to groom young girls to think of themselves as 'physically attractive sex objects' rather than professional career women or the like. Some pageants may indeed be large, commercially oriented "cattle calls" that attract the overly dedicated types, but most seem to be low-key events not particularly meaningful in any way at all. Just about what a weekly dance class that culminated in some sort of 'dance recital' would be. You sit there in the audience and politely applaud as they make their entry and exit, but you don't really pay attention to what is going on.

Posted by Frank-e on Apr-22-03 at 11:59 AM
In response to message #20
Thanks be to parents whom allow their female children to enjoy a life of IMAGINATION and FANTASY development in freedom.

JBR's-PLAY- was just that it appears, nothing more, a FEMALE child in a playful state learning to understand the limits and rewards of competitive and comparative human social activity. Yes, JBR would also have to learn of I'm pretty, or I'm prettier than you, her, them and I find this good under sound parental wisdom. Mrs. Ramsey from a public view of her, she does not seem to present vanity or tacky causual, I'm so sexy, cat walk expressions in public.

JBR was learning important social, public, and self esteem varied limits of a healthy imagination and fantasy development into a sound truly human female knowledgeable, it seems of important limits too, from it all. A good thing!

I have a daughter, I watch her closely as to her imagination and fantasy levels, and so, when it hits limits where it deters her social development, we have always talked about it. A talk that involves her ability to function in an understood up front manner ultimatly benefited by mental play in a personal and social life on ground zero. Reality check!

Mrs. Ramsey seems in public expression, A BIG REALITY CHECKER!

But a Wise developer of her children's gifts and talents. The pageants seem to me, to be, JBR's gifted need to engage as a female child seeking her way, her expressions, her freedom in innocence to seek out a tremendous talent movement of living by Ones' unencombered expression in public.

Adults want control, adults want to diminish by placing upon the child, adults inability to de-sexualize in their own imaginations or impulses to let female innocence be such as it truly is to the child.

Without the corruption of desire for non-reproductive children, but for adult imagined developed fantasy placed upon the child's playful innocence. JBR was not Marilyn Monroe, she was a female child at play.

Whoose problem? Not JBR's or Mrs. Ramsey who shows wisdom in female child development.

#23, Pageants
Posted by Victor W. on Apr-22-03 at 10:23 PM
In response to message #22
I think that JBR doing pageants was generally a harmless activity that was fun for her and allowed her to interact with girls in her age group. Any prizes or awards she might win probably didn't concern her much. It does seem that having the contestants wear makeup and lipstick might have been taken the grooming aspect too far however. At her age, I don't imagine that she was influenced by this and I would guess that the audience mainly consisted of mothers daughters, and organizers, but I'm wondering what affect it would have on a girl who participated all the way into the teenage years. Would she start to act and dress more adult-like as a pre-teen?

#25, RE: Pageants
Posted by Oblivious on Apr-26-03 at 02:33 PM
In response to message #23

Attack on Beauty Pageants

The attack on girls and womin in beauty pageants is a clear example of misogynist bigotry, they hatefully attack and insult the girls and womin personally, they don't just criticize the pageant program, the attacks are hateful and personal. This is designed to oppress and stigmatize little girls and womin who choose to participate in pageants and have a residual effect of making females afraid to express their femininity. In backward patriarchal societies like the United States and fundamentalist Muslim countries every expression of femininity is suppressed. In the United States, girls are encouraged at early age to dress like boys, act like boys, play sports like boys and god forbid that any girl should express her own independent feminine qualities in public. Those who fear her femininity suppress any expression of it, to keep feminine womin out of public life and out of success and power. In some societies even more repressive than the U.S., womin are forced to wear black shrouds to hide themselves from public view, in the U.S., putting girls in boy's clothes serves as the shroud to cover up their femininity. There is also an attempt to keep little girls from looking to feminine role models, that's why the attacks are usually on the womin themselves using personal insults rather than just criticizing the way the pageant is presented.
In free societies people have the right of freedom of association, to express their own identity and are free to relate to others in their own way without oppression. Beauty pageants are a symbol of freedom, independence and personal excellence for femin, a development of their own personal qualities. The misogynists want to deny femin the right to develop their own personal qualities, beauty, grace, poise, talent, public speaking skills, etc., this is certainly repressive and discriminatory.
The hateful attacks on girls and womin in beauty pageants by insulting them personally is an attack on the rights of femin themselves. What if a group of Neo-Nazis were outside of the Jewish meeting condemning them with hateful threats and attacking their right to the choose to be Jewish and saying they have no right to practice their faith? What should they do? Should Jews run and hide, should they disband their organization, hide their heads in the sand and tolerate this outrage? Womin must stand up for themselves, these feminazis are a threat to all womin everywhere in the world and must be condemned with the same outrage as all bigoted groups.
Saying hateful things against those who appear in beauty pageants is anti-feminine harassment, its puts womin on the defensive for simply be a beautiful, feminine womon. Only girls are attacked, there's not one word against little boys being pageants, and there are little Miss. and Mr. pageants. They only protest pageants where they express feminine beauty and goodness. Why don't they protest women in combative activities, i.e.; boxing which insights violence against womin, or protest transvestite contests, or girls forced into abusive contact sports? But those self-destructive activities are consistent with the androgynous agenda.
Prejudice against womin aspiring to be beautiful, smart and accomplished is so unreasonable that pageant detracters constantly lie about the womin in pageants by stereotyping them as dumb, when in reality in most pageants, they are exceptionally intelligent. The Miss America Pageant has high academic requirements -- there are no dumb womin in the Miss America system, only dumb critics of the pageant. On a AOL message board one bitch called womin in the Miss America Pageant, "Little miss homemakers, have a pretty face and a nice body and no brains."
Among the finalists in this year's Miss America, one lady finished 1st in her law class and another had a 3.99 grade point average in biogenetics at Stanford. It is typical in the Miss America Pageant, to have womin who have or are pursuing degrees in medicine, law, journalism and the sciences with high grade point averages, some are very talented musicians, singers, dancers, they are volunteers in community services and have remarkable lists of accomplishments, and are among the finest examples of womin the country has to offer.
Such prejudice exposes this person's ignorant contempt for womin's identity and natural roles, there is the snide put downs of their future roles of being a homemaker, wife and mother, and the stereotyping of womin who are beautiful, smart and successful as being pretty but dumb. Womin have faced such prejudice for generations. Womin who are smart, accomplished and who have achieved success are disregarded as being just a pretty face, such misogynist bigots refuse to ever recognize womin's abilities or accomplishments, and most hatefully, insult their identity and roles as womin.
I wonder what people like those critics have accomplished, what are their academic credentials, what value are they to society? From such stupid statements you can infer that they are frustrated, jealous fools.
One of the important elements of beauty pageants must be the ability of femin to overcome the attempt by others to stereotype them and to denigrate and persecute them. Femin must be strong psychologically and emotionally and have the resolve to be themselves -- to be feminine and proud -- they msut never apologize for being beautiful and they must not lower themselves to the level of their enemies. In the pageant, judges must look to reward and encourage those femin who are strong and confident in their femininity and are able to effectively deal with the persecution they face from hostile, prejudiced elements of society with grace and dignity.

Kim Emery(1) says, "Pageantry gives so much to those involved that it seems a shame that this is happening. I know that competing in pageants has returned to me the self-confidence that was taken from me when I was in a serious accident that left me with a physical disability. It has given me the opportunity to inspire others to reach for their goals, despite their physical limitations. Competing also allows us to meet new people and obtain wonderful public relations skills that will only help us in the future."

The girl hating sickos in the media and elsewhere are intentionally trying to promote hatred and fear of femininity and to incite child molesters to target girls in beauty pageants out of wishful thinking so they can use those crimes to persecute femininity just as they have exploited JonBenet's murder. These are the same fiends who support psychologically molesting children in the public schools by exposing them to homosodomite pornography and other obscene material designed to seduce them into that deadly lifestyle. The media does not condemn such real child abuse nor does the mainstream media even report what's really going on in the schools. The media themselves are purveyors of violence marketed to children to insight violence in children, they also produce programs that contain some of the most obscene, perverse, immoral subhuman behavior to be found anywhere--and show it on television, in prime time, so lots of children will see it and imitate the immorality. These hateful attacks against pageant girls is abuse that terrorizes girls everywhere and intimidates them into being afraid to be feminine. The devils then use this fear of femininity to lure them into abusive activities, such as boy's sports, lesbianism, and other freakish behaviors designed to destroy the femininity in them that they have been brainwashed into hating and fearing.
"Pageants are obscene to the point of child abuse and I think they should be banned," said Judi Wall of Richmond.(1)
That is a threat of political violence to outlaw the right of girls to dress and look like girls and obscenity is a label that is used to ban unpopular expressions. This a violent threat that must be fought by any means available. Anyone who threatens innocent little girls and slanders them by calling them obscene doesn't deserve to have their rights respected and doesn't deserve to live. People who falsely accuse good and loving parents of being child abusers for instilling self respect and moral virtue in their daughters are evil, anti-social pathogens that should be sued for slander. Those personal attacks, when directed against individual persons are abusive to the children and slanderous to the reputation of good parents.
Some have said that pageants are just another activity like sports, while others have countered that they're not the same, implying that a girl who plays boy's sports is normal (in this perverse society that is). It's not the same, pageants are just getting dressed up and speaking and performing on stage, a good wholesome personal development activity, while pushing girls into boys sports is abusive persecution of her femininity. Wanting to the beautiful, develop her talents, public speaking skills, meeting the academic requirements, doing community service and maintaining good moral character while expressing her personality can hardly be compared with pushing a girl into contact sports where she is abused, verbally harassed, insulted, and demeaned, where her every feminine expression and feeling is aggressively belittled and oppressed and where she is physically knocked around and forced to behave in aggressive ways to pervert her very nature as a female.
Greg Bach reported(4) that: "A study by the Minnesota Amateur Sports Commission found that 45.3 percent of the children surveyed said they had been called names, yelled at and insulted while playing sports while 17.5 percent reported that they had been hit, kicked and slapped and 21.5 percent said they had been pressured to play with an injury. Furthermore, 8 percent said they have been called names with sexual connotations and 3.4 percent reported that they had been pressured into sex or sexual touching."
That hostile environment, and the fact that combative sports is inherently abusive to girls, is why competitive sports is not appropriate for girls. To the degree that such conduct is imposed on girls in beauty pageants it is equally inappropriate.
'Pageant moms' are ridiculed while soccer moms are celebrated as the approved form of abuse used turn girls into boys and make them suitable weapons of the state. They attack pageant moms but not parents who put boys and girls in contact sports together, worst of all martial arts, they don't attack parents who let their kids become homosodomites or transvestites, they only attack the parents who encourage their daughters to be virtuous, feminine ladies.
They say, "let them be kids, don't make them grow up too soon", that is what they are doing, being kids, they are girls being girls, and that, I believe is their real objection, they don't want girls to be girls, they want them to be boys. The phrase "boys will be boys" is not only accepted as normal but often is used to make excuses for the worst behavior of boys and men, but in this culture girls are not encouraged to be girls. This hostile society makes kids to grow up too fast, they wont leave them alone to play and pretend. Playing dress up, performing, living out the princess fantasy is being a girl, so shut the hell up and let girls be girls. Its a shame that girls have to confront the hate, persecution and misogynist bigotry at such a young age.
A proud pageant mom (4)declared, "I am proud to say that I am the mother of Little Miss West Deptford, 1995...But now, in the many months since the tragic -- and yet unsolved -- murder of JonBenet, people view pageants, their participants, and the parents who encourage them with a jaded eye, a wary suspicion. Words like "inappropriate," "voyeuristic," and even "child abuse" are thrown around, as if having a child tap dance in front of a panel of judges makes a parent automatically guilty of some sort of unspeakably lurid behavior."
She went on to say, "I am not my daughter...She enjoys talking with people, laughing loud, and making noise, as evidenced by her love of cheerleading...She has always enjoyed making up and making believe, and she's a born performer. She likes being noticed by a crowd, being applauded, and putting on a show. Even when she was all of two years old, she liked to adorn herself in my mother's jewelry (since I didn't own any) and dance around the house, brush in hand as makeshift microphone, lip-synching to "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" while the family laughed. But it still took me by surprise when, at age six, she asked to participate in her first pageant. But she pleaded through my panic, "Come on, Mom. Katie's doing it, and it will be fun, and everyone will get to see me dance. Please!" and I reluctantly relented."
She concluded,(4) "They emphasize fun, not competition, and many of the girls become close with one another because of the shared experience." "I have learned to congratulate and celebrate these girls who are so different from me" "After all, the girls just want to have fun -- and isn't that what being a kid is all about?"
"Although proponents say pageant fever is no different from that surrounding Little League or T-ball, UK professor Vernon Wiehe disagrees. "My concern is these beauty pageants inappropriately sexualize young children and they give a message to the adult population -- including sex abusers -- that children are sexual objects,"..."The point of the matter is there are pedophiles out there in numbers none of us like to think about. It's risky business," said Theresa Morian, a social worker and family services clinician for the state in Jessamine County."
From where do they imagine these things? Their own sick, deranged mind. Normal human beings look at these little girls and see sweetness and purity and are inspired with love and protect desires -- the inhuman devils look at little girls and see sexual objects, in fact objects of scorn and hatred and mercilessly attack them. These girl hating perverts shouldn't be looking at girls at all, and they must be kept away from girls whatever it takes -- such inhuman viruses should be exterminated.
What is so evil in its twisted irony, is that the media and others like them would never insinuate that a homosodomite is responsible for inviting violence against oneself. Nor should anyone. If anyone made the slightest insinuation that a gay or lesbian, no matter how obscene or pornographic their displays, was responsible for violent attacks against gays or lesbians, they would condemn such statements to high hell and stop at nothing to sensor anyone making such statements. Yet these same inhuman, misogynist, monsters continue to blame womin and even innocent little girls for violence committed against them simply for being beautiful, appearing in public and behaving in feminine ways. We are now at war against a system, that, at the same time, exploits the killing of a gay or lesbian to suppress any dissent against that lifestyle, while exploiting the killing of an innocent little girl to blame her for her own death and incite more violence against femin.
The message this sends is that girls had better not dare to express their femininity on stage or appear too beautiful in public or they will keep inciting violence against you until you fear your femininity and turn against it and hide yourselves in shame.

Suesan Rajabi, Miss Colorado USA 1996, is the daughter of Iranian-born American parents, knows what this kind of persecution against womin leads to. She regularly visits Iran," PNB(1) wrote, "where she wraps herself from head to foot in the garment known as the chador and experiences life in a puritanical, male-dominated society, run according to a few people's interpretation of the Islamic religion." She is a journalist reporting on and working with the oppressed dissident media in Iran. PNB(3) said, "Their rules fell hardest on women, who were banned from using makeup, showing their hair or revealing any part of their bodies. And many career opportunities for women vanished."
In chauvinistic countries, including the United States, girls and womin sometimes receive death threats because of the way they look, or are accused of "inviting" their own rape or murder. Ironically, Miss Rajabi "judged one of the last pageants in which...JonBenet Ramsey competed" the article said. She remembers JonBenet "as genuinely sweet and fun-loving." Said PNB, "She loved to perform, she loved the costumes."

Bill Press on CNN's Crossfire(2) called pageants named "dream girls" and "glamour girls", "sick".
To say that any girl who dresses up to look like a positive image of a feminine lady is sick is a deranged bigot that has a sick and hateful attitude toward all womin. Bill Press is the same creep that promotes homosodomite perversion and wants it taught to children. Bill Press hates womin so much that, on CNN's Crossfire(2), he wished death and destruction on the Miss America Pageant and its supporters. He said "I just think it's too bad that Hurricane Floyd didn't pick tomorrow night to hit Atlantic City, rather than a couple of nights ago. But look, institutions come; institutions go. This institution made a lot of sense in the days of black and white TV and Chesterfield Cigarettes and the fox trot. It's time to kill it. It's over."
This evil minded, misogynist, bigot wished violence, even death on these womin, even using the words "kill it", which is a Freudian slip that shows his violent hatred for womin. Tomorrow night is Saturday night, the night of the Pageant. Womin in fundamentalist counties have been killed for simply showing their face, legs or an ankle in public. This neo-communist bastard who promotes the political homopervert agenda is preaching hateful violence against womin, persecuting them for the way the look, and for natural feminine expression and wishing death on them. This smirking evil minded, bigot can't be allowed to preach hate and violence against womin with impunity because he is involved with the political mob and will use his influence to direct policy in a way that persecutes girl's and womin's rights which may even threaten their lives. Bill Press is a hypocrite, he denounces anyone who criticizes homosodomites but preaches hate and death against womin, which may lead to inciting violence against them; to attack femininity is to attack womin's nature.
One of the bigger challenges for femin in pageants is to learn how to respond to the hateful bigoted oppression in a classy and graceful way and communicate their purpose and values.

by Gregory Flanagan

1 - Kim Emery, Miss Massachusetts Sunburst / Miss Massachusetts USA Petite: Posted on the Pageant News Bureau message board
2 - CNN's Crossfire - (topic) The Miss America Pageant; Sep. 17, 1999
4 - Advocating to End Child Abuse in Youth Sports - Greg Bach; the National Alliance for Youth Sports: Illinois Periodicals Online
* - The spelling of womon and womin identifies natural females, as opposed to we-men (females impersonating men) and feminazis (which some call gender feminists or radical feminists) along with femon and femin which identify feminine womin or natural feminists. If you notice words usually ending in the suffix (-or) such as actor, visitor, neighbor spelled acter, visiter and neighber it is because (-or) is masculine and (-er) is gender neutral.
Wo-man (p. we-men) - A subject of or follower after or imitater of men. Woman means "out of man." In Genesis Adam says: "She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man."
Womon (p. womin) - A normal, natural feminine, adult female, meaning one with a womb.