"BORG misinformation"<BR> Posted by jameson on Feb-01-02 at 01:33 PM (EST)<BR> I don't know what happened but the thread disappeared!<P> Geesh!<P> I wanted to respond to someone - - <P> JonBenét was NOT wearing pull-ups to school, she had worn them at night months before but was<BR> not wearing them at all anymore.<P> If someone saved that thread - - please repost it! <P>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<P>JonBenét did not have any problem staying dry at school or at her friends' houses. I am not talking about preschool or when she was 3 or 4, I am talking about in 1996 when she was in kindergarten.<P>She occasionally wet the bed - - it certainly was not every day. Patsy said it happened about once a week and was not a big deal.<P>JonBenét did not wet the bed on the 24th or the 25th. Patsy would have known if she had and she would have had NO reason to lie about that.<P>The confusion LHP faced was an honest error. The cops took in the sheets as evidence and remade the bed. They neatly folded down one end of the bedcovers to expose the sheet - - and they carried that photo to LHP to talk about it. They wanted to find out what she knew about the room without giving her any information. Instead it ended up with LHP telling the tabloids that those weren't the sheets she put on the bed on the 23rd! The cops never cleared that up - - but that's how that happened.<P>

The pull-ups were stored in a cabinet in the upstairs hall - and when the cops got to the house they were still in the cabinet - the door closed.<P>When the cops searched the house, they opened doors and drawers and took photos of what was inside - - that is when they opened that cabinet and pulled the pull-ups out partway.<P>That bit about the pull-ups was a red herring - - totally.<P>But certain people loved it - - it made it look like there was a PROBLEM - - the public used those pull-ups against the parents and so the cops never cleared up the myth.

That's a pretty serious allegation jams! Does that mean that the BPD wanted the Ramseys to be guilty so badly that they were willing to construct evidence and frame these people? Surely not! <img src="http://64.225.95.82/dcf/Images/wink.gif";><BR>Seriously, it sounds as if all grudges against the Ramsey family were held inside the BPD. <BR>Was the family unknown to the police before this happened?

It is the truth - I know it is the truth.<P> But you have to think -- who leaked that - - I honestly don't remember, and under what<BR> circumstances?<P> Did a cop say to some witness, "What if I was to tell you that we found some pull-ups half out of a<BR> cabinet - - what would that tell you?" That statement would be allowed in any interview - - and<BR> could lead a witness to believe something that was not true.<P> Happened with the unmade bed - they made it - photographed it and flashed the photos to LHP. She<BR> told Coffman and others about the "made bed" and the next thing I knew, Chris Wheeler and Claudia<BR> Trainer, BORG leaders, were on national TV saying they had great sources and were just told the bed<BR> was, indeed, made!<P> It just happens like that.<P> ButI want to clear up this myth. The cabinet was closed when the cops got to the house - - THEY<BR> opened the cabinet.<P> There were no used pull-ups in the house and the pull-ups are unrelated to the events of<BR> 12/25-12/26. <P><P> <P>

That is a lie. The pull-ups <b>were</b> hanging halfway out of the cabinet. <P>But it must be important if you have to start a whole thread to dispute it. The police NEVER claimed the made bed to be evidence in the case.

"That's a pretty serious allegation jams! Does <BR>that mean that the BPD wanted <BR>the Ramseys to be guilty so <BR>badly that they were willing to <BR>construct evidence and frame these people? <BR>Surely not! Seriously, it sounds <BR>as if all grudges against the <BR>Ramsey family were held inside the <BR>BPD. Was the family unknown <BR>to the police before this happened?"<P>This is the stuff that helped to screw up this case from the start!<P>If the leads led anywhere of significance, the parents of this child would not still be under their umbrella...<P>Grudges? You can only hold a grudge against a person you know quite well...who has maybe wronged you in some way...<P>Are you saying that the detectives on this case were all so childish in their attitudes, that this was a plot to "go get the Rams"? LOL Nothing better to do? This is silly talk -- and not worthy of discussion, because the only reason the Ramsey's were not handcuffed and led away 5 years ago, is because the Boulder Politics took over...and in-house wars began...plus the fact that the Ramsey's had lawyers who have managed to protect them so well, all this time, whilst negotiating this, and that, on their client's behalf...<P>As for framing? This is preposterous! Why would any of the detectives want to frame these parents?<P>These statements are clearly damaging, and wholly untruthful...<P><BR>

I have heard that JonBenet was not the only child to wet the bed in that house -- didn't Burke also wet the bed?<P>Odd..no? Both children?<P>

Burke wet the bed until he was in school. Both of the White children had been bedwetters as well. It seems that the parents in that group just didn't get all upset over that issue.

You say I am telling a lie. You say, "The pull-ups were hanging halfway out of the cabinet."<P><b>They were not hanging out until the cops opened the cabinet door and pulled them down.</b> <P> <P>You say, "... it must be important if you have to start a whole thread to dispute it."<P><b> Yeah - it is being used as some evidence against the Ramseys - not sensible evidence since there were no used pull-ups found, none on the body and not even any in her bedroom or bathroom! But they used that open cabinet door as some smear. So it is important to tell the truth.</b><P>The police NEVER claimed the made bed to be evidence in the case.<P><b>You are right. They showed the photo to the housekeeper to get information from her without telling her any facts about how the room really was. SHE and others converted it to "evidence" in the court of public opinion.<P>I thought I made that clear.

Who or what is your source Jameson? Someone told you the cops pulled them from the cabinet? The Ramseys?<P>My source is better than any source you think you have, and the pull-ups were partially out of the cabinet. My source doesn't have an agenda.

didn't have an agenda either. He didn't know the information would reach me. <P><P><BR>

Angel asked, "Why would any of the detectives want to frame these parents?"<P>To prove they were right all along - - even if they weren't.<P>To "solve" the crime - - even if the answer is incorrect.<P>Detectives are human - and egos have obviously been more important to some than the truth.<P>Angel - - how about if you ask Thomas about the pull-ups and the cabinet. I don't think he will respond to you. I don't think he would want to lie about it now.<P>

Angel asked, "Why would any of the <BR>detectives want to frame these parents?" <P>To prove they were right all along <BR>- - even if they weren't. <P>"To "solve" the crime - - even <BR>if the answer is incorrect. <BR>Detectives are human - and egos have <BR>obviously been more important to some <BR>than the truth. <BR>Angel - - how about if you <BR>ask Thomas about the pull-ups and <BR>the cabinet. I don't think <BR>he will respond to you. <BR>I don't think he would want <BR>to lie about it now." <P>I have yet to see this enormous EGO you keep talking about -- confidence should not be mistaken for ego -- and there is alot of confidence -- and NO lying!

"The cops took in the sheets as evidence and remade the bed. They neatly folded down one end of the bedcovers to expose the sheet - - and they carried that photo to LHP to talk about it."<P>Jameson, you will stop at nothing in your quest to prove Ramsey innocence. It might work here on your forum, but spewing out these kinds of lies is intolerable. <P>The police DID NOT gather up evidence and THEN take photographs. They took the pictures as everything was when they responded. AFTER the initial photos they then pulled up covers and took pictures of that before removing the covers completely. <P>As far as the pullups question, working with your blinders on you've missed the point. You forget that at the time of this initial investigation, the body hadn't even been found yet so they didn't know what exactly to look for...they just looked at everything. The bedwetting theory hadn't even begun to gel yet as there were no stained or wet bedsheets on the bed! <P>If the pullups were inside the cabinet as you say, it was no big deal because afterall, there was no evidence in the bed she was a bedwetter. <P>Thus, no "motive" for a mother gone crazed.<P>If the pullups were outside the cabinet, as the police photos indicate, again it would be no big deal as regards the crazed mother theory. Perhaps the innocent answer would simply be Patsy was tired and just pulled them out and put them on JBR. There was no evidence in the bed she had wet, which would make sense if the child was a bedwetter and she was wearing the pullups.<P>Thus, no "motive" for a mother gone crazed.<P>Either way you cut it, it's no big deal. It's only turned into a big deal because the body was later found in the basement, without pullups on. What follows then are questions involving the intruder; did she have them on? and if so, where are they? did he take them out with the cord and tape? If she didn't have them on to begin with, then why would an intruder be pulling them out of the cabinet?<P>Again, with your blinders on, you can't see the very innocent explanation that the intruder wasn't interested in the pullups, he was interested in going through the cabinets in search of something 'useful'. The pullups package was in the way.<P>There's no need to lie, Jameson.

*big grin*<P>>AFTER the <BR>>initial photos they then pulled up <BR>>covers and took pictures of that <BR>>before removing the covers completely. <P><BR><b>You can have your opinion, but I will disagree and tell you why. LHP said that the sheets in the photo were not the last ones she saw on the bed - but Patsy had not changed the sheet between the party and the murder, so... so it seems the sheets WERE changed. Most probably by the cops. Either way, the point is that the cops made the bed and showed the photos and so were part of the process that led to misinformation being put out there. They never cleared up the misinformation.</b><P><BR>>As far as the pullups question, working <BR>>with your blinders on you've missed <BR>>the point. You forget that <BR>>at the time of this initial <BR>>investigation, the body hadn't even been <BR>>found yet so they didn't know <BR>>what exactly to look for...they just <BR>>looked at everything. The bedwetting <BR>>theory hadn't even begun to gel <BR>>yet as there were no stained <BR>>or wet bedsheets on the bed! <P><b>Agree - taking the photo was NOT done to set up the parents - - but those photos were used later by investigators to confuse the issue when certain ones decided the bedwetting theory was OK by them.</b><BR>><BR>>There's no need to lie, Jameson. <P><b>I am not lying - not at all.<P><BR>

Just a comment, my 4 year old son was sick about 6months ago with the runs, and I got real tired of cleaning out his underpants so I bought him a package of pull-ups, in a hurry I accidentally bought the large pack, we only used two of them so now i have a full package in the top of his closet! My 6 year old daughter now is sick with the runs and she is now wearing them. She has had a lot of soiled underpants as well. Save the laundry.

Just wanted to say that pull-ups in a home with older," supposed to be potty trained" children are not unusual.

I see this being discussed on another forum - - they have it wrong - - so I will bump this up and hope they find it.