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Forum Name: more and more JBR
Topic ID: 2118
#0, "We"
Posted by Ashley on Jan-31-04 at 11:47 AM
The RN might have a few truths located in it. The one that jumps out at me is the "we" never I or me, just we.


I think the note writer was telling the truth about the two gentlemen. Does that mean there was a third party involved? Very possibly.

The note dosen't say Killing won't be difficult for ME. Anyone else think this part of the note was accurate?


#1, For all we know, the
Posted by Maikai on Jan-31-04 at 12:15 PM
In response to message #0
note may have a lot of truths in it--it may be what it is. It does jump from we to I----which is similar to another note in a crime that occurred in a southern state. In that note it mentions we, but slips back to I, and when the perp was found, it was only one.

What leans credence to me of there being more then one, is it's a pretty gutsy crime, with Hollywood movie themes---sometimes one may not have the guts to do what two (or three) might cook up together---with one reinforcing the other. Secondly the note appears to be almost a joke---which is contrary to the final outcome. Meaning, one was duped into writing it, and was present during at least part of the crime; and the other was a sociopath with violent tendencies. The open butler door may indicate one took off at some point through that door---the other through the basement window.

What goes against there being more than one, is the increased likelihood that one would blab. Of course---unless one is deceased, or so scared to be charged as accomplice, he/she has managed to keep their mouth shut. There has been so much notoriety and money flashed around, you'd think an innocent party that knows about the crime would have come forward by now. That story would be worth millions, and attorneys wanting to represent him/her pro bono, would be falling over each other to get the case. You also could have the possibility that someone was the brains--perhaps out for revenge---and found someone in the subculture to carry out the crime.

I hope they can do the gender DNA test on the sample----to at least show if the perp was indeed from a "foreign faction."


#2, RE:
Posted by Sparrow on Jan-31-04 at 12:16 PM
In response to message #0
Hi Ashley!

I have thought for years that three people were involved, and there was a kernel of truth in the ransom note. However, the writer(s) used the word "I" more than once. In my opinion, the use of the word "gentlemen" and some language in the note smacks of a female or genteel male...

"When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence and earlier pickup of your daughter."

I don't think they ever intended to remove her from the house. If so, it would have been much easier to walk right out the door on the main floor. The basement room was also part of the plan, imo.


#3, RE:Hi Sparrow
Posted by Ashley on Jan-31-04 at 12:31 PM
In response to message #2
I forgot..you're right, he/she does use the word I. Sounding as if he's the brains and in charge. Hmmm, I need to think about this some more.

Btw, Sparrow,love to see you posting.


#4, Maikai
Posted by Ashley on Jan-31-04 at 12:34 PM
In response to message #3
I agree about the Hollywood theme. He was probably really into movies.

#5, I can see someone watching
Posted by Maikai on Jan-31-04 at 12:53 PM
In response to message #4
"Ransom," who knew of JR in some way, and getting the idea of a copycat crime---as a joke, to stir things up for excitement, and then sit back and watch while the police and Ramseys tried to figure out who did it. A joke that wasn't suppose to end in murder. Getting fast cash may have been part of it, with the thought no police would be called, and they'd get away with it, and they'd leave JBR someplace alive....all before noon the next day.

I can also see someone of foreign distraction, where English is not his first language, using the movie lines thinking they would scare the Ramseys enough to not call the police.

I can also see a feminine quality in the note, because it's so wordy, and 2/3's of it is polite....with perhaps the end being dictated. There is definitely a change of mood towards the end---almost like someone else's words.

'Course a paranoid schizo that talks to cookies, is beyond my comprehension---you'd think someone like that would crack at some point, and the voices would tell him to confess.


#6, I can't see someone writing that
Posted by Maikai on Jan-31-04 at 12:56 PM
In response to message #5
note, with the thought of brutally murdering JBR and sexually assaulting her...and leaving her dead in the basement. However, that might just be me---I can't comprehend someone that calculating and sick---but it can't be discounted, I suppose. Truly a crime of revenge out of jealousy or some perceived slight. The tone of the first part of the note, and outcome just don't jive, IMO.

#7, RE:Hi Sparrow
Posted by Sparrow on Jan-31-04 at 01:03 PM
In response to message #3
..."Sounding as if he's the brains and in charge. Hmmm, I need to think about this some more. >Btw, Sparrow,love to see you posting."

Thank you, Ashley. I sure miss our old forum days having "Coffee" together and trying to teach Bradley to cook.

I agree with you about the "brains" writing or dictating the note, and wanting to be in charge, while blaming any future harm of JonBenet on John, and the "two gentlemen watching over" her.


#8, Maikai
Posted by Sparrow on Jan-31-04 at 01:29 PM
In response to message #7
You might want to look into the case of Barbara Jane Mackle. She was the daughter of a wealthy family who was kidnapped in Georgia. Her family lived in Miami, and the kidnappers were a male/female team who worked for the University of Miami.

The kidnappers had constructed a crude wooden coffin before the kidnapping & buried her alive until the ransom was paid. She was buried with a small air hose, water, and little food. The FBI rescued her in time, and the culprits were caught.

When I was a student I had a part time job at a local department store during the Christmas holidays. One day I helped Barbara Mackle, but didn't realize who she was until she handed me her credit card. Of course I didn't mention her ordeal but immediately recognized the name.

I think there are some similarities between the two cases, and perhaps a quasi-copy cat who took elements from different kidnapping cases and movies but wanted to write his/her own script.


#9, RE: Maikai
Posted by one_eyed Jack on Jan-31-04 at 04:05 PM
In response to message #8
There were two different footprints in the basement room.

There was the talk in the note about two gentlemen.

There was a window and a door open the next morning.

There could have been two people involved.


#10, Sparrow
Posted by Ashley on Jan-31-04 at 07:18 PM
In response to message #9
I miss those days too. How long ago was that? Must be two or three years ago? I wonder if he's still got that old dirty frying pan? LOL!



#11, Thanks, Sparrow.....
Posted by Maikai on Jan-31-04 at 11:57 PM
In response to message #10
The Mackle case sounds familiar--I'll check it out.

#12, Mackle Case
Posted by Sparrow on Feb-01-04 at 08:32 PM
In response to message #11
Maikai, your Dad might remember the case but it was 35 years ago.
The Mackle case kidnappers were eventually paroled. I posted the most recent link I could find below but there's not much detail about the actual events.

Both Barbara and JonBenet were the daughers of wealthy business executives. Both daughters and their family were personally targeted by the predators, and both had connections to Georgia. (good southern common sense?)

JonBenet, and Barbara were both approached by intruders, and removed in their night clothes. Both families were instructed to collect money in certain denominations, and to wait for further instructions
in exchange for the safe return of their daugther. Both victims were held captive, and eventually found below ground level in dark confined spaces with various objects left by the kidnappers.

In both cases victims were bound at the wrists, and subdued to render them helpless. JonBenet Ramsey with a stun gun, and Barbara Mackle with chloroform.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/accent/content/auto/epaper/editions/sunday/accent_f3ffc2aad1c3525600ba.html


#13, RE: Mackle Case
Posted by Margoo on Feb-01-04 at 10:26 PM
In response to message #12
I remember reading that book MANY years ago. What an awful experience. I am ssoooo claustrophobic. They'd have dug me up and found an absolute basket-case, for sure. Maybe I'd get lucky and just pass out from fright and failure to breathe! Dreadful.