John Douglas back into the Ramsey investigation, he announced today.

Rainsong

Great news! Did you see him discussing his new book on the Today Show?

''Today'' at 7 a.m. on Channels 7 and 10; 10 a.m. on Channel 7. Actress Juliette Binoche (''Jet Lag''); author John Douglas (''Anyone You Want Me to Be''). In stereo. (Closed-captioned)

ANYONE YOU WANT ME TO BE
A True Story of Sex and Death on the Internet
By John Douglas and Stephen Singular

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37335-2003Jun9.html

Last night on MSNBC they were discussing the Jonbenet Ramsey case.
Abrams report.

>John Douglas back into the Ramsey investigation

Thats better than excluding him, but I don't see much for a profiler to do now. A good profiler might have helped in the early stages, but we need investigators now, not compass pointers.

>>John Douglas back into the Ramsey investigation
>
>Thats better than excluding him, but I don't see much for a
>profiler to do now. A good profiler might have helped in the
>early stages, but we need investigators now, not compass
>pointers.

Maybe, but won't he have access to new information in making his profile that he didn't have before? If he was working for the Ramseys before he wouldn't have had access to all of the crime evidence. All those bits and pieces can really help don't you think?

What is his role in the investigation? Is it his typical role as a profiler? Can you give us more details?

I just watched John Douglas being interviewed live on Court TV. He talked about the Ramsey case, but he did not say anything about being hired by D.A. Keenan for the new investigation.

I thought the issue was not that John Douglas had said he was being invited back into the investigation, but that he had not been paid by the Ramseys. I recall reading the latter in the Cases that Haunt Us. He describes how he was asked to profile the case by Bryan Morgan, how he was offered a consultancy fee and travelling expenses for a one off service. I don't think that is the same thing as being an exclusive Ramsey investigator. Are you implying John Douglas can be bought? That's a pretty strong thing to say about the man that helped set up the CASKU for the FBI...

The announcement of Keenan's invitation was indeed in the interview John Douglas had with Katie Couric on the Today show.

As for the payment, Mr. Douglas has mentioned this issue on his board several times.

My credentials? You want name, rank, serial number, blood type, mother's maiden name?

All I can tell you is check out JD's board. I've been a member there since its inception and JD takes an active part in the discussions.

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/cgi/bbs/YaBB.cgi

Rainsong

Mr. Douglas made the announcement on the Today show.

Rainsong

...thank you for bringing this information here. I appreciate knowing it.

I remember reading that John Douglas was paid $100,000 for his profile of John Ramsey (he was hired when JR was the main suspect).

Here is an article in which Douglas admits that the only information he had on the autopsy report for that profile came third hand from Team Ramsey:

Profiler admits his autopsy briefing came from Ramsey lawyers

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0201jon.htm

I apologise if I was abrasive, it wasn't personal. Sometimes I sit and think about how to word something nicely and then I give up and just say what I mean.

I don't read JD's board and I'm most certainly not asking you to identify yourself. However, I do think it's a valid point that I am making. Anyone could post as anyone when they are an unregistered user of a forum. If it's on a transcript or an official press release then that's fine, but taking an unregistered user at their word is generally inadvisable.

I am wondering what Douglas can bring to the investigation. He has already committed himself to an opinion about the Ramseys and he admitted himself that he didn't use his normal methods of interviewing (I have both Mind Hunter and The Cases that Haunt Us). I agree with the other poster who feels he may have a conflict of interest here and I'm surprised at Keenan if she has indeed hired him.

John Douglas did say on The Today Show this morning that he is going to be working on the Ramsey case again. Someone I know taped it, here's what he said:

Ann Curry: We only have a minute left, but I need to ask you, I understand that you've signed back on to the, to the Ramsey case? What are you doing?

John Douglas: Well, well, I was quite surprised, because I was criticized by most of America when I went out on the case and asked by the, the Ramsey attorneys. And I did an assessment, appeared on your show in January 1997, I did not believe the Ramseys were responsible. Mary Keenan is the new district attorney and she's invited me now to assist in the investigation.

Ann Curry: No conflict for you working for the other side?

John Douglas: No. I never got paid, never got paid. I, I do all my work pro bono for victims of violent crime. And, and so I was invited to go out there, and I'm doing assessments along with Detective Lou Smit and others. Because it, it, the intruder theory was just totally ignored by the police and by the, the FBI. The case has been taken away from the Boulder Police, it's being worked out of Mary Keenan's office.

Ann Curry: All right. Well, this is obviously just the beginning of more to come on that topic.

Former FBI profiler John Douglas, thank you so much for coming in this morning.

John Douglas: Thanks, Ann. Thank you.

http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa111700b.htm

crimeADM
Have you read John Douglas' recent book; and if so, what do you think of his
interpretation of the case?
stevethomas
have not read it, though have been briefed on it. i will be diplomatic -- suffice it to say
myself (and others in law enforcement currently) do not believe it was some teenage
kid.

Rainsong and candy, thanks for the info. John Douglas has experience and insight, and Mary Keenan seems to be gearing up the investigation by adding top-notch people who excell in their field. That's great news for those who hope to see the crime solved someday.

As for Steve Thomas and his opinion of John Douglas, LOL. Thomas is the number one reason this case was taken away from the BPD, and ST is grossly outclassed by the investigative talent currently sleuthing JonBenet's murder out of DA Keenan's office.

I thought you were asking Rainsong how she knew about this post

John Douglas was originally paid for his services in this investigation. Once he reached the conclusion the parents were victims rather than the perpetrators, he gave back his fee. He does not charge victims a fee for his work. He always works pro bono for victims.
Rainsong

rather than how she knew about the contents of the original post.
Someone said something here about him not being impartial as he was hired by the Ramseys, then Rainsong posted the above and you asked what her source was. I'm sorry, I thought you meant what was her source for the above post, and I knew it was Douglas from his book as I read the book and saw it there.

Sorry to have caused any distress and confusion :)

All's well that ends well. I'm looking forward to reading the new book. I saw JD on TV today...twice! Boy, I think Mary Keenan is forming a great team. Maybe soon, justice will prevail and they'll put the killer(s) behind bars. I'm looking forward to that day!

Rainsong, thanks for posting the link. I haven't read the forum before! Sheesh, someone there took my hat! "That" sparrow even has a little badge or sumthin' and actually met JD! I've been doing research here for over three years, and not even a lousy T-shirt! Well, okay, satisfaction is good too. ;)

The 'other' Sparrow and Rumaj from the board have met John. After the lecture, Sparrow and Rumaj spoke with JD about members of the board. Sparrow was kind enough to send me JD's comments about me.

As a side note, JD has been particularly gracious to me in reference to my writing.

Glad to have cleared up any misconceptions.

Rainsong

>The 'other' Sparrow and Rumaj from the board have met John.
>After the lecture, Sparrow and Rumaj spoke with JD about
>members of the board. Sparrow was kind enough to send me
>JD's comments about me.

That was very kind of the other "sparrow" but I'd send you photos of "us" and some chocolate, AND flowers if I could meet JD.

>As a side note, JD has been particularly gracious to me in
>reference to my writing.

What a great mentor for a crime writer! How's your book coming along?

>Glad to have cleared up any misconceptions.

Please send the "other" sparrow my best wishes, the lucky duck.

>As for Steve Thomas and his opinion of John Douglas, LOL.
>Thomas is the number one reason this case was taken away
>from the BPD, and ST is grossly outclassed by the
>investigative talent currently sleuthing JonBenet's murder
>out of DA Keenan's office.

I thought that was pretty funny too. A critique from the guy who gave us the "Bedwetting Rage" theory.

Anyone read the section of John Douglas' book about Jack The Ripper?

That case has now been solved. I wish I had more details, but I cant remember names. Anyway John Douglas confidently names who he thinks was Jack the Ripper - and it was wrong.

Jack the Ripper has not been unmasked. The theory behind a certain book is full of holes and was morphed from a previous investigator's theory.

If I have time, I'll look for the link debunking the book's theory.

Rainsong

I think it's intersting that Singular co-authored the new book with Douglas. What a great team.

Not to get too far off topic, but I read Patricia Cornwell's book and thought it was good - and while I respect her research into Walter Sickert, her conclusions were based more on speculation and less on hard evidence. From the false conclusions drawn early in the Ramsey case, especially in regard to Patsy, and then "supported" by weak, Steve Thomas-type hokum, I conclude that Cornwell presented a good case but the Ripper murders haven't been solved. I thought the weakest "evidence" was the parallels she drew between paintings he (Sickert) had done and the murdered women. Many other paintings could be compared to poses and expressions of the Ripper victims. It really didn't impress me as unique knowledge only the killer would have.

Candy, I didn't say a word about Steve Thomas. My post refers to the new book by Singular and Douglas.

wasnt Walter Sickert also linked because his fingerprints and saliva were found on the letters to police?

I don't think so. I haven't heard that anyway. Unless this is new stuff that has come out of Patrica Cornwell's investigation (which I haven't read). I think it would have been in the newspapers here if they had identified the writer of the letters and I don't think they would have had the recent newsnight special about the jack the Ripper diaries - incriminating james Maybrick.

Maybe I'll buy Patricia Cornwell's book and read it on holiday. I kind of don't like the fact that she has portrayed Donald Rumberlow's stuff as her exclusive new find. I think he is the best writer on Ripper.

I found Singular's book, "Talked to Death" (The Life and Murder of Alan Berg) in a used book shop a couple months ago. That book was a good insight into Boyles' early days, and why he has a grudge against the one attorney (forget his name) that the Ramseys hired. He was the attorney for one of the defendants in the Berg case. Singular's definitely been around.

>
>What do Mame and Jameson have in common? A mutual hatred of
>Fleet White.

For the record - by my recollection, Jameson has often stood up for Fleet White. I have never had the impression that Jameson hates Fleet White.

If the news is correct and it seems to be, then could it be Keenan has a "suspect' to focus pressure on?

Douglas the profiler with new evidence and focused on an intruder may well prove a valuble tool for Keenan. A tool of private investigation pressure on suspect and public development knowledge for a future jury.

The profiler Douglas is to not find a intruder suspect, but he's to expose a publically already viewed intruder suspect by his profile.

I might add that I don't "hate" Fleet White. I do believe there are enough questions concerning White's actions and behavior to look at him further. The bottom line is, I don't believe White should be given any less scrutiny than any other possible suspect. While some might feel he's gotten a bad rap, there are just as many, or more who feel the opposite. In truth, none of us have the power to know who is innocent, or guilty.

Anyone who was near that child is a possible suspect.

>FW and his family and houseguests have all
>been cleared, they have been for years.
I don't know what is meant by 'cleared' and I don't think that Daphne White was ever suspected by anyone.
FW claims to have been home asleep at the time. With several houseguests and his spouse in the home, it is unlikely that he left undetected and unlikely that he would have been able to do so, but it is well known that he did spend time with JonBenet and he and his wife have been regarded on the various forums as 'spongers', 'moochers' or 'leeches' and thus might well have some "fat cat envy" issues.

>suffered at the hands of Hunter
?? Hunter was very strongly BORG and always has been.

> and the likes of you and the rest of the MW cult.
Okay, I give up. Who is MW ?

I don't get the comment regarding Jameson's and Mame's mutual hatred of FT at all. I have never ever gotten any sense whatsoever at all that Jameson hates FW. Not at all. She has been more than fair in regard to him. I also don't understand why anyone would think there would be any conflict of interest with Douglas working with Keenan. He never worked "FOR" the Ramseys in the first place. He agreed with their attorneys to talk with them after which he concluded they were not guilty. Isn't there quite a difference in that and if he had worked "FOR" the Ramseys? Any comments made by Steve Thomas regarding John Douglas are embarrassingly naive and just plain stupid. Steve Thomas has no credibility or expertise and bungled the whole investigation from the get go. He should just go hide under a rock at this point.

Don,

MW is Nancy Krebs. Alex Hunter was behind this sideshow. He asked several private citizens, including Michael Tracey, Dan Glick and others to investigate Fleet White's
"California connection." He vouched for Krebs, calling her "very believable" the day her allegations were on the front page of The Boulder Daily Camera (after a meeting between Hunter, Barrie Hartman and Lee Hill) and the next day took it back after the California police called her "fruit loops."

...thank goodness we're all entitled to our opinion.

PS Fleet White has NOT been cleared.

Candy do you have documentation on the White houseguests from CA being cleared? I have not seen that information. Perhaps you can post the documents and/or media links? We need to stay with accurate information, and I am sure you will agree.

Listen Carefully! The White stories of Grandpa Sr. sex dripping from the Ol'Black Gold oil business is real acrid smoke burning the eyes of the innocence ones. But it does not prove that the Whites themselves are the source of the perp as to one of them.

Further, the fact they (Whites) are a Old World blood line tribe in the New World today are nothing more than good ol NEW RICH TRASH! It takes generations of education, religious development and cultural refinement to level off into productive SANE community participants for the good of all. Give the Whites some time, they'll get there, Grandpa was just good Old World capitalistic and just immoral pond scum.

Yes, New Rich Trash does produce younger generational misfits whom turn to--get rich quick schemes--such as kidnapings or drugs and sex trade.

The problem is that America today is awash with such 'misfits' of the New Rich Trash! We have as a nation produced many New wealthy groups and also let in as immigrants many NEW RICH TRASH wanna-be's with 'misfit' children.

Daddy and Mommy did it, so can you children! False concept! A concept that is leading to numerous--spoiled new rich misfits--to act in criminal pursuits to gain wealth comparable to their NRT parents.

Why did Fleet White choose John Ramsey as his friend and buddy in Boulder?

John Ramsey is an intelligent personality whom communicated well as to advice for Fleet White.

Fleet is smart enough to know when to listen and John Ramsey is sensitive enough to care as a good friend would.

Patsy and John Ramsey were ahead of the curve on sound New Rich Trash future generational development of their children. IMO, it seems to be from their older children's public lives as examples. The Whites were IMO looking for such generational development for their children. This is good!

Fleet is like our President Bush, not the smartest one academically, but smart enough to choose intelligent advisors and hire smart ones to bring to the bank, lifes rewards.

Old Fleet has been publically silent thoughout this case, even after Ms Kreb's allegations, which included his god daughter naming him as the killer. He never spoke up for his son, either. I wonder if he's still alive. I wonder if he has been throwing money around behind the scenes to keep the heat off the Fleets. That was one of Nancy's allegations (that he tried to pay her off).

Not that it matters, but that's not my post. Actually, I can't find my comments because they have once again, gone up in smoke.

What happened to the posts on this thread?

Several posts have been deleted - including two of mine. jameson has deleted a simple post of mine (post #9) which politely asked Rainsong where she had heard that John Douglas was invited back onto the case.

However, jameson has left Myself's post #13 (for which she graciously apologised in post #25) which implies that I was accusing Douglas of allowing himself to be bought.

jameson has deleted my reply to post #13 where I asked Myself where on earth she had gotten that idea because I had only posted a simple one sentence question asking a simple and polite question - which had nothing to do with any payment that Douglas had received.

The result is that anyone reading this thread will now believe that I may in fact have posted something libellous and inflammatory about John Douglas requiring deletion when I did not.

Judging by jameson's recent posts to me, I could be forgiven for wondering if she has been deliberately selective and spiteful in her deletion of posts on this thread.

My post was #5 not #9. This was what was deleted:-

5. "Rainsong"
In response to message #4

Do you have a source for this news or is it 'insider' information?

Myself mistakenly interpreted this as me accusing John Douglas of allowing himself to be 'bought'. jameson thought it worthy of deletion leaving Myself's accusation to stand and lurkers/members to assume that I had in fact made such an accusation.

Wheels within wheels. Thank goodness for software which autosaves webpages.

John Douglas has an excellent reputation and is very much respected in the forensic community.