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Forum Name: more and more JBR
Topic ID: 1139
#0, Cocaine connection?
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:02 PM
unregistered user
May-22-03, 10:02 AM (EST)

50. "RE: Interesting thread"
In response to message #34

I Interviewed Judith Phillips and Tom Miller twice. I had Judith Miller on my TV show with her photo
exhibit shortly after the Murder. She said she loved JonBenet and loved taking picturesof her. She did
not say that about Patsey...........infact they were estranged.....I didn't push it.
I again ran into both of them at the grand Jury on the day they returned from Peru. They were high
and told me about their drug deal when frank Coffman tried to get them away from me....knowing I
would talk about it....which i have repeated ly...........and there is more...........CBI was trying to bust
the Millers on drug dealing and had followed them to peru.......but missed em? This was told repeatedly
by the agent in charge....who purchased copies of my shows where the Miller and Phillips
appear.....they are not out of the loop

What I say here on this forum, on TV or in my column has been told directly to me by law
enforcement, the person or a witness.

#1, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:05 PM
In response to message #0

> I again ran into both of them at the grand Jury on
>the day they returned from Peru. They were high
> and told me about their drug deal when frank
>Coffman tried to get them away from me....

Very interesting - - I am going to assume you have gone to authorities with this information and an offer to be a witness if they are ever prosecuted.

Also interesting is what you are saying about Frank Coffman. I know he and Judith have a history that might make it .... he may want to protect her a bit...

Some of this doesn't seem WAY out of line....

#2, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by Cora R. on May-22-03 at 06:17 PM
In response to message #1
It's disturbing to hear that the Ramsey's took cocaine at the White's party. I don't believe it. If I did, I'd had to think that they killed her sister under the influence of the drug.

#4, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by Cora on May-22-03 at 06:18 PM
In response to message #2
Sorry, I meant "daugther", no "sister".

#9, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:30 PM
In response to message #2
>It's disturbing to hear that the Ramsey's took cocaine at
>the White's party. I don't believe it. If I did, I'd had to
>think that they killed her sister under the influence of the

Who is saying the Ramseys used cocaine at the party? There is no evidence of that - - and if you are talking about some report made by Nancy Krebs, I hope you don't think anyone is going to take that seriously - - she wasn't there and would have no way of knowing what was going on that night. She has her guess, her theory - - her story - - and that is questionable.

(Mame - I am not going to speak for the investigators except to say this - - if they had the evidence supporting Nancy's claims, we would have seen a lot more action there long ago. She may have some things right but there is a LOT missing.)

#14, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by Mame on May-22-03 at 07:35 PM
In response to message #9
If we had the information regarding the entire Ramsey investigation a long time ago we would have ALL been better informed. It took us six and a half years to fully understand how devastating Steve Thomas was to this case! As you know better than anyone the BPD did a horrible, unprofessional job investigating this case! I'm not sure what would lead us to believe the investigation into Nancy's information was any different? It wasn't. It was handled improperly from start to finish. I wouldn't assume we would have heard anything by now. From who? Beckner? Trujillo? Harmer?

The investigation has and is continuing. If she had been fully discounted that would NOT be the case...

#5, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:24 PM
In response to message #1
Candy claims she has spoken on the phone to "Doc" Miller - says he denies what Jann is posting. When I read that, it struck me - - why would anyone call him "doc" - - he was a lawyer!

Nevermind - - probably nothing.

She said she emailed Frank Coffman and he offers another explanation for the conversation Jann reported - said he thinks Jann Scott "is referring to an incident where he (Coffman) told Judith to be wary of Jann Scott."

All three of them are interesting Boulder "characters" in my mind. Do I believe what they say? I don't know - - - I am on the fence - - as is my right.

I would note one other thing - - - elsewhere it is being noted that they may have been tested for drugs - - I doubt it - - if they submitted a mouth swab for DNA testing, thatis all they would have done. No reason to test for drugs since none were found at the crime scene.

#10, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by JC on May-22-03 at 06:41 PM
In response to message #5
I don't give much value to those phone calls. Of course, if they use cocaine they're not going to tell her they do.

#11, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by Smokey on May-22-03 at 06:44 PM
In response to message #5
'Doc' is Tom Miller's nickname. Candy is on a nickname basis with him, is all.

#3, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by daffodil on May-22-03 at 06:17 PM
In response to message #0
Nothing surprises me anymore. Drugs are all over the place. There could well be a drug sub-plot. I just wonder how ST the narc didn't catch wind. It sounds like this is news nearly 4 yrs old. The Millers didn't get arrested for drugs, but TM did have to cool his jets in a courtroom for a while. This might explain some of the hostility I sensed years ago when JP described how the BPD stormed in and just scared the death out of her. Perhaps she was a tad sensitive to the arrival of many, many cops...

#6, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:25 PM
In response to message #3
As the prime suspects, I would expect the Ramseys would have been checked for drugs. JMO

#7, Myself's post
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:25 PM
In response to message #6
unregistered user
May-22-03, 06:04 PM (EST)

"Drugs and the case"

What I can't understand is why people can't seem to separate sex and drugs.
I don't know if I think they always go together but this is the impression we have of them I suppose.

For my part, I don't think or can't believe a sex party took place at the White's house with everyone
as a willing participant. So I am going to leave that aside and focus on the drug discussion instead.

I can consider however, the possibility that some certain people in Boulder were either drug takers or
drug dealers in a big way and those people were not necessarily all transient hobos. What do we know
about the allegation that a certain restaurant was a "contact point" for the acquisition of drugs? How
likely is it that if John and Patsy were staying with the proprietor of the place, they never realised
what was going on around them?

These people are not natives of Boulder, and were relatively knew to a town I am told was only a few
kilometres in diameter. What was going on under their noses that they were unaware of, and which
might have placed their young daughter in danger?

#21, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by daffodil on May-23-03 at 08:57 AM
In response to message #6
Yes. And I'd have expected the panties to be sent to a lab before they grew mold two years later.

#8, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by JC on May-22-03 at 06:28 PM
In response to message #3
Is that why Judith looks "weathered"?

Just thinking of Judith's karma comments about Patsy makes me sick to my nostrils now that we have found out she may be a coke user and dealer.

Jameson, I notice you can see the possibility with Judith using coke, but why not Fleet and Priscilla?

#12, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by jameson on May-22-03 at 06:49 PM
In response to message #8
I never heard any rumors before about the Whites using drugs.

I can't make that statement about Judith.

I have no evidence ANY of them use cocaine - - but I had heard rumors about Judith and Miller before.

The thing is, even if they were using drugs at the time of the grand jury - - that wouldn't necessarily mean they were doing that in December of 1996. And Judith was not with Miller at the time (she was stillmarried) and she was out of state, she has an alibi - as does Pasta Jay. Now Frank Coffman.... I don't think he has an alibi (not pointing any fingers - - I have no reason to think he ever heard of the Ramseys before the murder.)

I am not sure if any of this drug stuff is true - - or if it is, is it related to the murder of JonBenét?

I will say that I spent time with the Ramseys - I don't believe they would cover for ANYONE who would do this to their child. Further, I honestly believe that if they had any idea that there was some coke connection they would have come forward with it - - even if it meant exposing some skeletons in their own closet.

If there was some drug connection, it is a connection to the killer, not the family.

I believe that and the fact that the Ramsys came through that BORG investigation without any hint of that involvement supports my beliefs.

#13, RE: Cocaine connection?
Posted by Smokey on May-22-03 at 07:26 PM
In response to message #12
>If there was some drug connection, it is a connection to the
>killer, not the family.
>I believe that and the fact that the Ramsys came through
>that BORG investigation without any hint of that involvement
>supports my beliefs.

Yes, I think so too. Still, a few of the Ramsey's friends could have been secretly involved with drugs unbeknownst to the Ramseys, especially if the Ramseys were unfamiliar with signs of drug abuse.

#15, Poor, poor Whites
Posted by F-e on May-22-03 at 07:41 PM
In response to message #12
I do have some compassion for Fleet White and his immediate family concerning them being dragged into the spotlight. I don't believe one minute the Ramseys themselves as a couple would involve their children in sex and drug parties.

I know from a first hand witness of the senior White (old man White not Jr.)that SEX was part of his parties. Big time.

The problem of drugs and sex extends out into many persons lives. The issue of Fleet White comes to importance in the Ramsey association. The SEX and DRUGS is not limited to the main players, but to the extended family members and friends.

Krebs has offered up a view into the White's households decades old and it suggests problems that may have found there way to the Ramsey house. Nothing more. A younger family member looking for a get quick rich scheme. Or a younger member who has been influenced by other schemers.

#16, RE: Poor, poor Whites
Posted by FOXhound on May-22-03 at 09:29 PM
In response to message #15
In a move reminiscent of this Krebs caper, Mark Geragos has promised to produce a "Mystery Woman" in the next few days. Defense attorneys for Peterson have told Rita Cosby that the woman exists, she will come forward, she will tell of a Satanic cult who killed Lacey and another pregnant woman found headless in San Francisco Bay.

#17, RE: Poor, poor Whites
Posted by Tricky Woo on May-22-03 at 09:30 PM
In response to message #15
Do you have any of the details of Sr's sex parties? And how was this person aware of them?

#18, Cocaine binge and murder
Posted by Maikai on May-22-03 at 09:59 PM
In response to message #17
Now, here we have a profile of a perp that not only murdered a young Boulder girl, but used a stun gun and duct tape, who reportedly had been on a cocaine binge for weeks. This is the likely profile of the perp, IMO, that entered the Ramsey home...wrote the rambling ransom note, based on his interest in technomovies.....and brutally murdered JonBenet. I've never used cocaine or methamphetamine, so don't know their effects on a brain----but I wouldn't be surprised the perp was an addict---and it was not some middle-aged friend (or former friend) of the Ramseys.

Cocaine part of murder case
By Christopher Anderson
Camera Staff Writer

ADAMS COUNTY — A man suspected of killing a Boulder teenager in January was on a cocaine binge for weeks and threatened to "kill someone" just hours before the victim was found shot to death, attorneys said in court Friday.

Shawn Balbas Souva, 21, is being held without bond on first-degree murder charges in connection with the death of 17-year-old Mary Rogers.

Rogers, a student at Quest Academy high school in Boulder, was found beaten, bound with duct tape and chains with shackles, choked with a cord and shot execution-style in Souva's Westminster apartment on Jan. 9, a medical examiner testified Friday.

She also suffered a broken nose, cuts and bruises all over her body and had been shocked with a high-powered stun gun before her death, said Larimer County Coroner Patrick Allen, who contracts with Adams County.

District Attorney Bob Grant said Friday that prosecutors will meet within the next three months to determine whether to pursue the death penalty.

Adams County Judge Donald W. Marshall ordered Souva to stand trial for the death following Friday's nearly six-hour preliminary hearing in which prosecutors laid out parts of their case for the first time.

Senior Trial Deputy Cynthia Kowert said laboratory reports show that Souva had gunshot residue on his hands, possible evidence that he fired the .38-caliber handgun that killed Rogers.

Souva's attorney, Harvey Steinberg, got a detective to admit on the stand that gunshot residue can be transferred to hands simply by touching something with the residue on it.

Witnesses said they saw Souva days before the killing with a black handgun matching the type thought to be used in Rogers' death.

Kowert said Souva made several contradictory statements to friends the night of the death, and, hours before police found Rogers' body, he told friends details of the crime that "only the killer would know."

She also pointed to witness statements that Souva was obsessed with his former girlfriend, Samantha Riley-Olsen, Rogers' best friend. According to police testimony, witnesses said Souva was angry that Rogers was spending so much time with Riley-Olsen that the former girlfriend did not have time for him.

Westminster police testified that witnesses said Souva had been on cocaine for weeks before the killing. Friends of Souva said he was not sleeping or eating and appeared to be having hallucinations.

Just four days before Rogers' death, Souva called police to report a criminal mischief incident involving laser beams. An officer noted in his report on the incident that he could find no evidence of what Souva was talking about and that it appeared Souva was high on drugs.

Detectives said that hours before the killing, Souva met with two drug traffickers at the La Quinta Inn in Louisville who helped him purchase an "eight-ball" of cocaine from a dealer in Denver or Lakewood.

The two men who helped Souva purchase the cocaine said they later went back to his apartment, where at one point Souva suddenly said, "I am going to kill someone," according to police testimony.

"He is responsible for Mary Rogers' death," Kowert told the judge in closing arguments.

Souva's attorney gave only a brief closing argument, but said that Souva's contradicting statements were probably the result of his mental condition from not eating or sleeping.

He questioned detectives about witnesses' statements that Rogers helped "run drugs" and was in the middle of a rivalry between two large-scale drug dealers.

One of the dealer's offered Rogers $5,000 for the address of the rival dealer, according to police testimony. The other dealer made threats to Rogers, officers said.

Lab tests reported that both Souva and Rogers had cocaine in their system.

Allen, the coroner, said that it did not appear that Rogers had used cocaine "recently." But he said that meant she had not ingested the drug within at least an hour of her death.

Contact Christopher Anderson at (303) 473-1355 or andersonc@thedailycamera.com.

April 14, 2001

#19, Check with Lou Smit
Posted by Myself on May-22-03 at 10:57 PM
In response to message #18
This guy says that Lou Smit uses him for information. Is there any way we can verify that?

#20, RE: Poor, poor Whites
Posted by F-e on May-23-03 at 01:08 AM
In response to message #17
>Do you have any of the details of Sr's sex parties? And how
>was this person aware of them?

The man's name was Jeff Little of Little Oil Co. in Lancaster, calif. and so the party was for business associates.

If my recall is correct today after a couple decades, the house was in Orange County and Jeff Little descibed only that it was about Sex and the females were very out front about it. Jeff never said anything about Fleet Jr., only about the Old Man being something else.

No intimate details given nor would I ask for them.

#22, Lou talks
Posted by jameson on May-23-03 at 10:32 AM
In response to message #20
I would think that Lou has taken an interest in all CO crimes where a stun gun was used on a female. I don't think we would need to verify that - - I would believe it, that Lou would want to know about that crime, that criminal.