In this section we see .... well, if the Ramseys had pulled this crap in their interviews or depositions, Thomas would have been all OVER them - - just read it and feel your blood pressure rise - - I don't know, I can't remember, you didn't word that quite right...

VIDEO TECHNICIAN: The time is 9:45. We're back on the record.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) I'm going to try to make sure I can avoid any problems that Mr. Diamond
might have with my question. Let me go back and withdraw the last question and restate it. What I
would like to know, Mr. Thomas, is do you have notes pertaining to your involvement in or the
investigation of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?

A. The Boulder Police Department has those notes. I don't know that I have any notes.

Q. You left the Department by resignation of August the 6th, right?

A. Yes.

Q. 1998?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you turn over all of your notes to the Boulder Police Department?

A. Shortly thereafter.

Q. Who did you turn them over to?

A. I returned my briefcases and those contents, along with all my police equipment, which was
inventoried, to Commander Dave Hayes and Sergeant Michael Ready.

Q. Did you turn over your case notebooks?

A. Everything.

Q. How many case notebooks did you turn over?

A. What do you mean by case notebooks?

Q. Don't you know what the case notebook was used in this case, sir, filled out by all of the
detectives on a daily basis?

MR. DIAMOND: He may ask you for an explanation, what you're referring to. You're not going to
help him out?

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Do you know, sir, 6 what the case notebooks were in this case in terms of
the notebooks prepared by the detectives, I believe on a daily basis?

A. A case notebook that was prepared --

Q. Did you have --

A. -- on a daily basis?

Q. Yes. Did you have a notebook that you kept, maintained with respect to your investigation?

A. I had folders and my working papers which I maintained with respect to my parts of the
investigation.

MR. DIAMOND: He's asking about a notebook.

THE DEPONENT: Yeah, I know.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) You didn't have them in any notebook form?

A. No.

Q. Now, those working papers, all of that was turned back into the Boulder Police Department
shortly after you resigned in August of 1998?

A. Yes.

Q. You maintained no notebooks; is that right?

A. I maintained copies of those.

Q. So you have copies of your reports?

A. No, I didn't say that. I don't know that I have those copies anymore.

Q. Well, you said you maintainedcopies. Copies of what?

A. I maintained copies of what was in my working file briefcase which I returned to the Boulder
Police Department.

Q. How many pages of documents are we talking about?

A. A couple hundred maybe.

Q. Do you have those presently in your possession, custody or control?

A. No.

Q. What did you do with them?

A. I don't know.

Q. They just mysteriously disappeared?

A. No, I have moved twice in the interim. We have some things in storage. We, my wife moved
overseas. If I still had a cardboard box full of those documents or materials. I'm unaware of their
present location.

Q. When do you last recall looking at them or reviewing them?

(Discussion off the record between the deponent and Mr. Diamond.)

A. I last looked at those in --

MR. DIAMOND: He has mentioned the first full report that he --

MR. WOOD: Yeah, well, let him answer that.

MR. DIAMOND: Are you excluding that?

MR. WOOD: No, I'm not excluding anything. I want to learn everything.

A. Early 2000.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) How early 2000?

A. Probably February or March.

Q. That was the last time you saw them?

A. Right.

Q. And when did you move?

A. I moved -- I sold my house this summer, summer of 2001.

Q. And did you pack up your possessions?

A. Yes.

Q. So you don't have any explanation to offer as to what happened to your JonBenet Ramsey
working papers since you last claimed to have seen them sometime in February or March of 19' -- of
2000?

A. Yeah, after I last looked at them, this was a cardboard box full of these documents. And to your
question, yeah, I don't know where they are currently.

Q. You did not destroy them intentionally, did you?

A. No.

Q. You didn't intentionally lose them, did you?

A. No.

Q. You didn't think they were valuable to keep?

A. No, not necessarily.

Q. When did you -- in terms of that, you did know at some point that the Ramseys indicated they
were going to file a lawsuit against you if you published a book, didn't you?

A. Repeat the question, please.

Q. You knew early on when your book was published that the Ramseys had stated that they were
going to file a lawsuit against you?

A. I had heard through the media that they had made those threats.

Q. You didn't think it might be wise to keep up with your notes to have those in the event there was
a lawsuit?

A. Those are all available in the Boulder Police Department.

Q. So everything that you had, the 200 pages is available from the Boulder Police Department; is
that right?

A. Yes, as I said, I turned everything back to the Boulder Police Department.

Q. In fact, there's quotes in your book, for example, of interview testimony from different
individuals. For example, there are quotes alleged to have been made by Burke Ramsey in June of
1998, by John Ramsey in June of 1998, by Patsy Ramsey in June of 1998, by John Ramsey in April of
1997, by Patsy Ramsey in April of 1997 during police or district attorney interviews.

MR. DIAMOND: You'll represent that is the case?

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Yeah, well, that is the case, isn't it; you know that to be true, don't you?

A. That the book contained --

Q. Quotes from the interviews of April 1997 and June of 1998 of John and Patsy Ramsey and from
Burke of June of 1998?

A. Yeah, I would agree with that.

Q. I'm just trying to find out, for example, your notes, would they -- would the notes have those
quotes in them?

A. What notes are you referring to?

Q. The notes that you can't find now. How would you have quotes --

MR. DIAMOND: I'm going to object.

MR. WOOD: Let me.

MR. DIAMOND: He didn't say he couldn't find them. He said he doesn't know where they are. You
haven't asked him whether he's been looking for them recently, have you?

MR. WOOD: Well, I mean, I will ask him that in a minute. Again, Chuck, we'll move quicker if you
limit yourself to instructions on privilege.

MR. DIAMOND: Mischaracterizes his testimony in your --

MR. WOOD: That's not an objection on privilege, nonetheless.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Mr. Thomas, I'm trying to figure out whether you had notes that would have
had these precise quotes in them and that's how you were able to use them to come up with the quotes
in your book. Or did you come up with those quotes from their various interviews from your mind's
eye, your own recollection only? Do you follow me?

A. Yes.

Q. Which was the case?

A. They were either in notes which I had or in documents I subsequently received.

Q. And what documents did you subsequently receive about the investigation?

A. After I left the police department, over a period of time I received through the mail various
documents concerning the investigation.

Q. From whom?

A. Anonymously through the mail.

Q. Postmarked from where?

A. Boulder or Denver.

Q. And were these documents police files or reports on the JonBenet Ramsey investigation?

A. Yes.

Q. Were they documents from the district attorney's office on the JonBenet Ramsey investigation?

A. What do you mean from the district attorney's office?

Q. Well, for example, a report prepared by Michael Kane, as opposed to a report prepared by Mark
Beckner. One works for the Boulder PD and one works for the district attorney or did. You know the
difference.

A. No, these were Boulder Police Department documents.

Q. And how many pages of documents did you receive subsequent to the time that you left the
Boulder Police Department that concerned the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation?

A. Several hundred.

Q. Where are those documents?

A. Unknown. They would be in the same box if I still have it.

Q. So how many -- let me see if I've got all the sources of written materials that you had after you
left the Boulder Police Department on August the 6th, 1998. You had some couple hundred pages of
your work papers that you had copied, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. You didn't make copies of police reports?

A. In what context are you talking about?

Q. In this 200 some odd pages of your working papers, were there also copies of police files, police
reports on the JonBenet Ramsey investigation?

A. Yes, these were my working papers, yes.

Q. Well, for example, would it only be reports prepared by you or did you have copies of reports
prepared by other officers?

A. As I was the affiant on the master affidavit in this case I certainly was in possession of reports
from others to include in any search or arrest warrant in this case.

So the answer is yes?

A. To what question?

Q. The one I asked you. Did you have copies of other officers' reports on the JonBenet Ramsey
case in your working papers?

A. Yes.

Q. You make reference to being the affiant on the master affidavit. Did your working papers then
include copies of all of the documents that you had and had in any way relied on in preparing the master
affidavit in the JonBenet Ramsey case?

A. If I understand you correctly, no.

Q. Were you authorized to keep those copies by the Boulder Police Department?

A. When I resigned abruptly, I returned all those papers to the Boulder Police Department and there
was no further communication between us.

Q. But did you tell them you had kept copies of the papers?

A. No.

Q. Am I correct that everything you had in your physical possession in terms of case files, case
reports, notes, at the time that you resigned, whatever you turned over to the Boulder Police
Department at the time of your resignation, you made copies of and kept yourself; is that right?

A. I believe so.

Q. And that was only a couple hundred pages?

A. I believe so, yes.

Q. And did you keep, for example, a transcript of the April 30, 1997 interview that you conducted
with Patsy Ramsey?

A. I don't know.

Q. So subsequent to leaving, from what period of time until what period of time were you receiving
anonymous police file information on the JonBenet Ramsey case that you say totaled several hundred
pages? When did it start and when did you last get something?

A. Initially after I had made my intentions known that I was going to tell my story through a book.
And that was probably early, maybe January of 1999 and throughout that calendar year of 1999.

Q. Any materials in the year 2000?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Did you make any efforts to solicit information from any member of the Boulder Police
Department about the investigation after you left?

MR. DIAMOND: May I ask a clarifying question? Solicit written materials or just talking to
somebody?

MR. WOOD: Information, case information about the case.

A. Can you repeat the question please?

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Sure, did you make any efforts to solicit information about the JonBenet
murder investigation from any member of the Boulder Police Department after you left the department
in August of 1998?

A. No.

Q. Do you have any idea who sent you any of these alleged anonymous documents?

A. These are smart people. No.

Q. How do you know they were accurate if you don't know who sent them to you?

A. Because I had previously seen all of them.

Q. So this was information that was contained in the case file that you didn't copy when you left the
force, but it predated your leaving the force; is that true?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever receive any information about grand jury testimony or evidence in the case?

A. Never.

Q. Did you ever receive any information about the investigation in terms of efforts and information
subsequent to the investigation August 1998? Let me withdraw that and make it a little bit cleaner. I
want to know, you tell me the information you got predated your resignation date. Did you ever get any
new information, that is to say information that was generated about the case after August of 1998?

A. Without reviewing this box, I would have to say as we sit here now that it was all pre-August
'98. I don't recall sitting here that any of it was post-August '98.

Q. So that the documents that you have and the information that you had about the case, your best
recollection is that would have been limited to information generated prior to August of 1998, true?

A. Yes.

MR. DIAMOND: Counsel, I see no relevance to this line other than to find out what he knew at the
time he wrote the book. I instruct him not to answer. If you want to take this up with the judge, I am
happy to do so. If you want to make a record as to why this is relevant to the Wolf case, I'm happy to
listen to you. Otherwise, he's instructed not to answer. Move on.

MR. WOOD: Is there a privilege being asserted?

MR. DIAMOND: You heard me, move on.

MR. WOOD: Sir, if you will be polite, we will be polite, also.

MR. DIAMOND: Go ahead. I am happy to be polite.

MR. WOOD: Yes, sir, please do.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) My question is, I'm trying to find out about your knowledge concerning the
JonBenet Ramsey investigation. And it seems from what I am hearing that your knowledge is limited
to information about the case from the date of the murder in 1996 through August of 1998. Is that
right?

MR. DIAMOND: From police sources is what you have asked him about?

MR. WOOD: My question is on the table, now, sir. We can call Judge Carnes and correct the
problem that we're experiencing with you if we need to. I hope we don't need to.

MR. DIAMOND: We may well have to.

MR. WOOD: We certainly may have to if you keep interrupting inappropriately under the Federal
Rules of Civil Procedure, procedure for depositions.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Could you answer my question, please, Mr. Thomas?

A. Could you repeat it for me, please?

Q. Sure. I'm going to read it right back to you. I'm trying to find out about your knowledge
concerning the JonBenet Ramsey investigation. And it seems from what I'm hearing that your
knowledge is limited to information about the case from the date of the murder in 1996 through August
of 1998; is that right?

A. No, after August of 1998, I certainly followed media accounts and what was released publicly
and followed the case with some interest.

Q. Fair enough. Let me add that in. Can I then say in terms of drawing a circle around your
knowledge of the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation, that your knowledge consists of knowledge
about the police information and to some extent district attorney information from the date of the
murder until the time you left in August of 1998 and subsequent to 1998 has been supplemented by
what you have learned either through media accounts or through official statements from the Boulder
Police Department or the district attorney's office; is that right?

A. Very confusing question. Can you break that up for me? I don't understand what you --

Q. I just want to find out what you've got. You've got your personal knowledge. You've got the
police file information that you described for me, the copies of the documents you copied, the
documents that have been sent to you subsequent. And that all dealt, you believe, pre-August 1998,
right?

A. I'm not following you, Mr. Wood.

Q. Well, stick with me. I'll try and make it simple for you.

A. Please.

Q. More simple. You've told me about the documents. I've covered all the documents, haven't I?
You've got the documents you copied and you've got the documents that were anonymously sent to
you, right?

A. Yes, that's correct.

Q. Do you have any other documents about this investigation, other than those documents? Do you?

A. Oh, I'm sorry. If I understand the question correctly, no, as I said, not that I recall because
post-August '98 began the grand jury. And certainly I don't have any information from the grand jury
room.

Q. So we've got your personal knowledge about your involvement in the case, right?

A. Yes.

Q. We've got your knowledge from the written documents that you've just described for me?

A. Yes.

Q. And then subsequent to August of 1998, your knowledge about the case and its status would be
limited to what you have either seen or heard in the media or what may have been officially stated by
law enforcement authorities, right?

A. As far as I recall, I don't recall anything, as I have said, post August of 1998 coming my way, but
I'm not limiting myself to that, if that answers your question.

Q. As we sit here today, can you think of anything other than that? Is that your best recollection as
you sit here today, sir?

A. Yes, as I sit here right now, if I understand this correctly, that's my answer.

Q. And I'm sure that you came to this deposition in an effort to prepare for it and to refresh yourself
about the investigation, you knew you were going to be asked about it, didn't you?

A. The question being I know I was going to be asked about the investigation?

Q. Sure.

A. Yes.

Q. JonBenet Ramsey, that was the first murder investigation that you were involved in; is that right?

A. As a detective, yes.

Q. You were involved in a murder investigation in some other capacity?

A. I had been on homicide scenes as a uniformed officer.

Q. But as a detective actively investigating the murder, was JonBenet Ramsey the first murder
investigation in that capacity for you?

A. Yes.

Q. Can we also say that it was the
only one?

A. No.

Q. So you were involved as a detective in other homicide investigations?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell me about those. How many?

A. One other.

Q. When was that?

A. In 1997, I believe.

Q. Is that the one where the police officer was present when someone shot someone else in a
domestic dispute?

A. Yes.

Q. And then the person came down and admitted that he had shot or she had shot their spouse?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was kind of the end all of that case, wasn't it? Pretty open and shut, wouldn't you
agree?

A. When you say end all, yes, that concluded rather quickly.

Q. Yeah, I mean as I understand that case, there was a domestic dispute call, the police officer was
there and one of the spouses shot the other one and killed them, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And then came down to the police headquarters, and I believe you may have even been the
person talking to the perpetrator, and that person admitted to shooting his -- was it his spouse or her
spouse?

A. Her spouse.

Q. Her spouse. Anything other than that one case prior to the JonBenet Ramsey murder
investigation, did you have any other case where you were involved in a homicide investigation as a
detective?

A. No.

Q. Okay. So it was the only other one; JonBenet Ramsey was your last one I'm sure, right?

A. No, the last one was this Jakob-Chien homicide we're describing.

Q. That was the last one, I thought that was in -- oh, I'm sorry, that was in 1997 but your
involvement ended in '97. The last one you've been involved in went through '98 and that was
JonBenet Ramsey?

A. Right.

Q. From the time you were assigned to the JonBenet Ramsey case up until the time that you left,
were you assigned to any other homicide case?

A. Other than the one we noted, no.

Q. And I take it the JonBenet Ramsey case, other than the case that you noted, pretty much was
your full-time job; is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. And have you ever had any training, formal training, in handwriting analysis?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever had any formal training in criminal profiling?

A. No.

Q. Other than the 1997 case where you obtained the confession from the spouse who shot her
husband while the police officer was present on the premises, and other than the Ramsey case, have
you ever conducted any other interrogations of murder suspects or potential suspects?

A. On reported homicides, no, not that I'm aware of.

Q. Would you be willing to authorize us, subject to your counsel's recommendation or right to object
if he asked, would you be willing to authorize us to obtain a copy of your Boulder Police Department
personnel file?

MR. DIAMOND: You don't have to answer that. If you want to make a request to me, I will
respond.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) How many internal affairs investigations have you been the subject of?

A. I believe just one.

Q. When was that?

A. In the early to mid part of 19 -- of the 1990s.

Q. Was that Wheat Ridge or Boulder?

A. That was with the Boulder Police Department.

Q. Did that stem out of a shooting?

A. No.

Q. Or did it -- just give me a general idea of what it involved.

A. An unauthorized vehicular pursuit.

Q. And that's the only one, the only internal affairs investigation?

A. That's right. The incidents that you refer to -- there was no further -- to be an internal affairs
complaint there has to be a complainant and you mentioned the shooting incident, there was no
complaint.

Q. Is there any reason why the two-page report on Chris Wolf was in your book, why, for example,
that was separated out from the other box of materials?

A. No, I didn't say in my book. I said in a book. And this summer when I knew the Wolf case was
pending, I was pleased to find that folded in half and stuck in a book.

Q. What book was it stuck in?

A. A book on my desk, on my library shelf.

Q. Why were you pleased to find it?

A. Because I knew I would be giving testimony in this case and it might help me recollect some of
what I did four or five years ago.

Q. You could also refresh yourself with some of the statements you made in your book about Mr.
Wolf, couldn't you?

A. Yes.

Q. You recall Chris Wolf, don't you?

A. Yes.

Q. Am I correct that the Boulder Police Department conducted a thorough investigation of Chris
Wolf?

A. I'm aware and was a participant in the Boulder Police Department investigating Mr. Wolf, yes.

Q. My question was though, sir, do you agree that the Boulder Police Department conducted a
thorough investigation of Chris Wolf?

A. I know what I did with my involvement with Mr. Wolf, but I don't have personal knowledge of
what the detectives who subsequently closed him out as a suspect did to satisfy themselves.

Q. Well, take a look, if you would, at page 273 of your book.

MR. DIAMOND: For the record, do we have the hard cover?

MR. WOOD: Yeah, this is a hard cover.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) 273 and this is just in context apparently on an incident you're describing that
occurred on February the 25th of 1998, with Mayor Bob Greenlee. Do you know Mayor Greenlee?

MR. DIAMOND: Can you point to where you are, at the top of the page?

MR. WOOD: Just hang on a second, pay attention, you'll get there.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) In context do you recall the February incident with Mayor Greenlee about
Chris Wolf?

A. I don't recall the date being a specific date in February but I certainly recall meeting with Mr.
Greenlee, yes, about Chris Wolf.

Q. Look at the top of page 273. If you would follow with me, quote, We need to check this out, the
mayor snorted. We need a thorough investigation into this. End quote. "I guess he wanted me to
cower in his presence. Greenlee trapped himself, not me." Quote, We are thoroughly investigating him,
end quote, " I replied. Even as we spoke, Chris Wolf was in an interview room voluntarily giving
handwriting, hair and DNA samples and a statement." Have you followed me?

A. I have followed you.

Q. Have I read that correctly?

A. Yes.

Q. So it was your understanding that the Boulder Police Department was thoroughly investigating
Chris Wolf, true?

A. Yes, even contemporaneous with my exchange with the mayor on that particular day.

Q. And the investigation of Mr. Wolf had started back in January of 1997; is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. I'm trying to find out about your knowledge concerning the JonBenet Ramsey investigation. And it seems from what I'm hearing that your knowledge is limited to information about the case from the date of the murder in 1996 through August of 1998; is that right?

A. No, after August of 1998, I certainly followed media accounts and what was released publicly and followed the case with some interest.

......

Q. And then subsequent to August of 1998, your knowledge about the case and its status would be limited to what you have either seen or heard in the media or what may have been officially stated by law enforcement authorities, right?

A. As far as I recall, I don't recall anything, as I have said, post August of 1998 coming my way, but I'm not limiting myself to that, if that answers your question.

Q. As we sit here today, can you think of anything other than that? Is that your best recollection as you sit here today, sir?

A. Yes, as I sit here right now, if I understand this correctly, that's my answer.

Q. Do you have those presently in your possession, custody or control?

A. No.

Q. What did you do with them?

A. I don't know.

Q. They just mysteriously disappeared?

A. No, I have moved twice in the interim. We have some things in storage. We, my wife moved overseas. If I still had a cardboard box full of those documents or materials. I'm unaware of their present location.

He contradicts himself - first he says he does NOT have the papers, then he says he doesn't know where they are - - obviously the first answer should have been "I don't know."

The Ramseys seemed ever so much more honest in their interviews.