2 MR. WOOD: Before I leave, I need a copy
3 of that so I have it tomorrow.
4 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Who made the decision to
5 remove Chris Wolf from under the umbrella of
7 A It doesn't work like that where it's, you
8 know, today you are, and tomorrow you're not. It's
9 more of a transition that takes place over a period
10 of time and there is no one person that says, okay,
11 they are or they aren't. It just doesn't work that
13 Q Just a collective unspoken type decision
14 almost because there is nothing else to investigate?
15 A Yeah, kind of. You know, in discussions
16 and, you know, team meetings and such as far as
17 whether to take a lead further or not, or what needs
18 to be done, those decisions are made. And it's a --
19 I think I gave you a time frame but that's a loose
20 time frame. I mean there is no specific date where
21 you could look at anything in our files and say today
22 this person is under suspicion and tomorrow, on such
23 and such a date, they're not. It doesn't work that
25 Q In terms of making a statement under oath
1 about the thoroughness of the Wolf investigation, in
2 light of some of the issues we have discussed today,
3 would you agree that you might be more comfortable
4 deciding that upon a closer review of the file as it
5 pertained to what was done or not done on Chris Wolf?
6 A Well, you've got to understand I'm
7 answering these questions in generalities --
8 Q Right.
9 A -- because I'm not the person doing the
10 investigation. You've also got the work that was
11 done by the district attorney investigators in this
12 case that were -- it's a composite of that as well.
13 And a lot of faith in those investigators as well.
14 So given that, I'm comfortable in that I
15 haven't closed the door on looking at any new
16 information that may come up on anybody in this case.
17 We haven't closed the door on anybody in regard to
18 that. So we're always open to that.
19 Q Do you reach a point in time, though,
20 where you're able to say that with respect to a
21 particular individual, you have basically, barring
22 new evidence or new information, exhausted your
23 investigative efforts?
24 A Well, again you've got to take that in
25 context. You can always do more on every individual
1 that is in that file. Someone can come up with
2 something more you could have done. So no, you can't
3 say with absolute positively there is nothing else
4 that can be done on a certain individual. I don't
5 think you can say that about anybody. At some point
6 you just get to a point in your investigation where
7 you have to say is this leading to anything that
8 raises the level of suspicion of this person. And
9 you make those decisions in an investigation all the
10 time. Investigators do that, that's routine. That
11 doesn't mean you close the door to any new
12 information that may come forward, but certainly
13 you've got to make decisions in any investigation as
14 to where you're going to spend your time and your
16 Q In terms of the investigation now at the
17 five-year, almost the five-year, mark with respect to
18 Chris Wolf and any other individuals, I mean aren't
19 you at the point with respect to everybody that you
20 are with Chris Wolf that, barring new information,
21 the level, an increased level of suspicion is just
22 simply not going to occur with respect to anyone?
23 Because I'm sure after five years you've done all the
24 tests you could possibly do that you know of at
25 present, collected all the evidence you can possibly
1 collect, interviewed as many people as you possibly
2 could, aren't you at that point with everybody,
3 including Chris Wolf?
4 A Okay. Ask me that again.
5 Q In terms of the investigation now at the
6 five-year mark with respect to Chris Wolf and any
7 other individual who either is or has been under the
8 umbrella of suspicion, aren't you at the point that,
9 barring new information, that you're not going to
10 have the level of suspicion increased as to anyone
11 from where it currently is, true?
12 A Understanding that people are at different
13 places on that scale?
14 Q Sure.
15 A Yeah.
16 Q Whatever place they are on, barring new
17 information, they're not going to move up at this
18 point, you're at the point where you've done
19 everything you know to do at this point; isn't that
21 A That's pretty true at almost any point in
22 the investigation, people move or are lowered on that
23 scale based on new information.
24 Q Yeah, but there are points in the
25 investigation clearly where you have still got a task
1 list of things that you want to do before you can
2 make such a determination?
3 A And we're still doing some things; we
4 still have some things that we're working on.
5 Q They haven't been done in five years?
6 A Yeah, that's true.
7 Q Would that involve new information about
8 new people that has been brought to your attention,
9 even in the last several months?
10 A Some of it has, yes.
11 Q Okay. Do you know of anything outstanding
12 that has yet to be done on Chris Wolf?
13 A No, there is nothing outstanding at this
15 Q How about with respect to the Ramseys?
16 A (Answer inaudible due to simultaneous
18 MR. MILLER: Objection.
19 Q (BY MR. WOOD) After five years, you still
20 have something you haven't done with respect to them?
21 MR. MILLER: Object.
22 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Anybody else, were there
23 things outstanding with other individuals?
24 MR. MILLER: Objection.
25 Q (BY MR. WOOD) After five years? I'm just
1 trying to get a general idea of where the
2 investigation is.
3 MR. MILLER: I know you are and that's why
4 I'm objecting.
5 MR. WOOD: Chris Wolf is part of the
7 MR. MILLER: We've answered all the
8 questions about Chris Wolf. You don't have a right
9 to know where we are generally about the
11 MR. WOOD: Absent a court order?
12 MR. MILLER: Absent a court order.
13 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Let me ask you a question
14 then -- wait a minute.
15 The answer is on here. I want to make
16 sure the record is not confused. The question was I
17 had asked you whether that involved new information
18 about new people that had been brought to your
19 attention even in the last several months.
20 Answer: Some of it has, yes.
21 Question: Do you know of anything
22 outstanding that has yet to be done on Chris Wolf?
23 Answer: No, there is nothing outstanding
24 at this time.
25 Question: How about with respect to the
2 Answer: The same.
3 Mr. Miller: Objection.
4 Mr. Wood: After five years you still have
5 something you haven't done with respect to them?
6 Mr. Miller: Object.
7 Q (BY MR. WOOD) I'm not sure that you --
8 what the same answer meant. Do you follow me because
9 you didn't answer when I came back and asked you more
10 specifically if there was anything outstanding to the
11 Ramseys but you did answer, do you know of anything
12 outstanding that has yet to be done on Chris Wolf?
13 No, there is nothing outstanding at this
15 Question: How about with respect to the
17 Answer: The same?
18 MR. MILLER: I didn't remember him saying
20 MR. WOOD: I didn't either and that's why
21 I wanted to go back and make sure this is clear.
22 MR. MILLER: I was pretty confident my
23 interjection or my interjection of the objection
24 preceded any response of the witness.
25 MR. WOOD: Let's make sure that we've got
1 the record because I don't want it to be unfair to
2 the Ramseys, and I don't think the Chief wants it to
3 be unfair to the Ramseys.
4 Q (BY MR. WOOD) You're not willing to
5 answer the question with respect to the Ramseys or
6 anyone else as we sit here today about whether there
7 remains anything outstanding that is yet to be done
8 with respect to them?
9 MR. MILLER: That's right.
10 Q (BY MR. WOOD) You don't say, yes, there
11 is or, no, there is not; is that right?
12 MR. MILLER: That is right.
13 A That's correct.
14 MR. MILLER: And I would say, I would just
15 for the record say that at least to my ears, I didn't
16 hear him utter the words the same.
17 MR. WOOD: I thought that I heard
18 something that indicated there was still something to
19 be done on the Ramseys and that's why I quickly said,
20 Do you mean after five years, but I think that going
21 back I want to make sure the Chief didn't mean to say
22 that. Because if he did, if you're willing to say it
23 that there is something outstanding with the Ramseys
24 then I think in fairness we ought to go through and
25 see if there is anybody else out there that is in
1 that same boat.
2 A No, we're not willing to say that.
3 Q To say it as to anybody?
4 A That's to answer that question.
5 Q Yes or no?
6 A Right.
7 Q I understand. Okay. Well, that clarifies
9 MR. WOOD: Subject to our agreement the
10 deposition at this point in time will be adjourned
11 and down the road pursuant to our agreement, in the
12 event we determine that there is a need to address
13 other aspects of the investigation particularly as it
14 would pertain to the Ramseys and perhaps other
15 suspects or individuals, other than Chris Wolf, that
16 we would then notify you and you would be given an
17 opportunity to take the appropriate steps to litigate
18 the issue of law enforcement privilege before the
19 appropriate court. Hopefully we won't get there but
20 obviously under our agreement we may need to. So the
21 deposition is not completed but it's simply adjourned
22 until that time.
23 MR. MILLER: Right. And I would just say
24 for the record that the notice I would require is
25 probably a couple weeks or so.
1 MR. WOOD: I would be more than happy for
2 you to have 30 days.
3 MR. FRICKE: What I would need --
4 MR. WOOD: I would give you 30 days'
5 notice and say -- I need the deposition in 30 days
6 and between that time period you can file whatever
7 motion is appropriate.
8 MR. FRICKE: That's fine. Perfect.
9 MR. MILLER: That's the agreement we have
10 on some other matters.
11 MR. WOOD: Yeah, and I may ask you, Bob,
12 in light of a couple of things that the Chief said
13 today that by letter I might ask you with respect to
14 Wolf whether you all would be willing to go back and
15 have somebody pull the file and answer some specifics
16 about forensic testing on Wolf that he was not able
17 to remember. He said he might be able to get
18 somebody to research it. I would like to reserve to
19 send you something, it may not be lengthy.
20 MR. MILLER: You can always send me a
22 MR. WOOD: Okay. Right. Thanks.
23 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: This concludes the
24 proceedings. We're off the record at approximately
25 1:29 p.m.
1 (The deposition recessed at 1:29 p.m.)
2 I, MARK R. BECKNER, do hereby certify that
3 I have read the foregoing transcript and that the
4 same and accompanying correction sheets, if any,
5 constitute a true and complete record of my
MARK R. BECKNER
Subscribed and sworn to before me this
day of , 2001.