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8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: All right.
9 Q. (By Mr. Kane) I just want to
10 follow up, Mrs. Ramsey. How many times have
11 you spoken with Lou Schmidt personally?
12 Let's put it this way, since the grand jury
13 ended to narrow it down.
14 A. Oh, half a dozen.
15 Q. Was that here in Atlanta or back
16 in Colorado or both?
17 A. Both.

Bet you all expected that number would be much higher. The Ramseys really are NOT as involved as people think.

18 Q. During any of those discussions,
19 did you ever talk about the Hi-Tec shoeprint
20 that was found?
21 A. Probably. Not -- I can't
22 remember specifically what we talked about
23 each time.
24 Q. Okay. I mean, what was your,
25 were your -- the times that you did talk to

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1 him, was it about the investigation or about
2 evidence and that kind of thing or was it
3 more social? Maybe that is an unfair
4 question.
5 MR. WOOD: That is a bunch of
6 things. I think he wants to know what you
7 talked to him about, generally.
8 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Did you talk about
9 the investigation?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. But you don't have any
12 recollection of the shoeprint being part of
13 those discussions; is that what you are
14 saying?
15 A. Well, not specifically. I am
16 sure we talked about it. I mean, you know,
17 I've just heard many references made to the
18 Hi-Tec shoeprint.
19 Q. Okay. I think you said that you
20 don't recall whether Lou showed you any
21 photographs. Did he ever show you, on a
22 computer image, of any of the photographs?
23 A. I think so.
24 Q. Have you seen a photograph of the
25 Hi-Tec shoeprint yourself?

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1 A. I can't remember. I have this
2 vague image, but I don't know whether I am
3 imagining it in my mind or if I saw the
4 picture.
5 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, on,
6 I believe it was Saturday the 28th of
7 December, your sister Pam went and was
8 permitted to take personal property out of
9 the house. Do you recall that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Can you give us -- and again I
12 don't want to be unfair to you. I am not
13 certainly expecting you to itemize what came
14 out, but can you just give us kind of an
15 overview of what you recall what types of
16 things were brought out?
17 MR. WOOD: Let me just ask, in
18 fairness to the request, isn't that long
19 since knowledge? We are talking about
20 developments and information since June of
21 1998. I mean, that seems to me you all
22 were aware of that long ago, discussed in
23 Thomas's book.
24 MR. LEVIN: Well, I haven't read
25 Thomas's book, and to be perfectly honest

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1 with you, Mr. Wood, we are not exactly
2 certain what was taken out of the house.
3 And there are some things, some specific
4 things I am going to get into, but I am
5 trying to get a sense beyond what is
6 documented in the police reports of what came
7 out of the house.
8 And I think it is helpful for the
9 investigation. I think it will move things
10 forward.
11 MR. WOOD: Well, I am going to
12 let her answer. I just wanted to make sure
13 that it was clear that, in my mind, that
14 would not, would not be -- I am going to
15 let her go, I am going to let her answer
16 the question, but it does go back to areas
17 that clearly were available for examination
18 for three days.
19 MR. KANE: Let's clarify that. I
20 am under the understanding that you said the
21 purpose of this was to ask new questions
22 which means we are not going to plow old
23 ground again, but there are certainly a lot
24 of questions that have developed that involve
25 evidence that may have been known day one.

139
1 MR. WOOD: I understand that. I
2 am trying, I'm going to be, I'm going to be
3 extremely liberal in the definition of events
4 that have occurred since or developed since
5 or information developed since with the
6 emphasis in my mind on what was asked in
7 terms of new questions. So I am going to
8 let her answer that. But I did want to
9 just make it clear that that was something
10 that you all I thought had known about from
11 long ago.
12 MR. LEVIN: I am unaware of it.
13 MR. WOOD: Do you want to restate
14 it or, Patsy, I will read it back to you.
15 He said, can you give us, and again, I don't
16 want to be unfair to you, I'm certainly not
17 expecting you to itemize what came out, but
18 can you just give us kind of an overview of
19 what you recall what kinds of things were
20 brought out. Do you understand the question?
21 If you know the answer, go ahead and answer
22 it for him.
23 THE WITNESS: I think the kinds
24 of things that were brought out were --
25 well, Pam asked me, what did I need from the

140
1 house. And I told her the only thing I
2 cared about in that house were my things in
3 the little baby curio cabinet where I kept
4 the children's baby shoes and christening
5 gown and locks of hair and little special
6 little things. And aside from that, I don't
7 know what came out.
8 I know that there is a list
9 because she didn't take anything that wasn't,
10 you know --
11 MR. WOOD: Inventoried.
12 THE WITNESS: -- inventoried as
13 she --
14 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Did you provide
15 her, you personally or John at your request
16 or some third party at either your or John's
17 request, did you provide a list of clothing
18 that you needed, that you had an immediate
19 need for that you asked for?
20 A. No.
21 Q. She brought, she did bring
22 articles of clothing out though?
23 A. I don't know that she did. I
24 don't know.
25 Q. Just so that I am clear, what you

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1 are saying is you just don't have a present
2 recollection of whether or not she brought
3 clothes out, not that she did not; is that
4 right?
5 A. I don't know whether she did or
6 not. I know Susan Stein had to go out to
7 -- she said that she went to Foley's to buy
8 me some clothes and some shoes because I
9 didn't have any, so -- except what I had on
10 leaving the house, so --
11 Q. After the funeral, you move back
12 to Atlanta, that house is packed -- and the
13 police released the house back to the family
14 after they finished their search, the
15 contents is packed up and shipped to Atlanta;
16 is that what happened?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. So anything not taken out by your
19 sister Pam or seized by the Boulder Police
20 Department during their search was returned
21 to you?
22 A. I think so. I don't know if our
23 -- I think our investigators spent time in
24 the house after the police investigators were
25 finished. I don't know. They may have

142
1 taken some things.
2 Q. Were there things that your
3 investigators took that was done at your
4 direction or John's direction that you are
5 aware of?
6 MR. WOOD: Are you talking about
7 a specific request for an investigator to get
8 something?
9 MR. LEVIN: Yes.
10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) For example, take
11 this particular coat, it might be important,
12 or take this jacket, it might be important,
13 any of those types of conversations?
14 A. No. The only things I cared
15 about in that house were my baby things. It
16 could have burned to the ground.
17 Q. So I take that as saying, no, I
18 never had a conversation with the
19 investigators to assist them in seizing
20 things that might be of evidentiary value?
21 A. Correct.

Patsy was in shock, the people around her were making most of the decisions - - and later this was not an important issue in their minds. Listing everything pam too, talking about buying new shoes after the murder - - how could this help find the killer?