VIDEO TECHNICIAN: The time is 3:05. We're back on the record. Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Mr. Thomas, were the sheets on JonBenet's bed collected on the 26th of
December for forensic testing?
A. I was told they were.
Q. And what tests were performed on them?
A. I don't know. Detective Trujillo had that assignment.
Q. Was there any test that you're aware of that indicated the presence of urine on those sheets?
A. Detective Trujillo imparted to me that he had learned or believed that there was not a
presumptive test for urine according to the CBI.
Q. Were they wet?
A. When?
Q. That morning. Did --
A. Unknown.
Q. -- you ask? Did you ask any of the officers there, hey, by the way, were the sheets on
JonBenet's bed wet? Did you ask that question of anybody?
A. I did not.
Q. Do you know if anybody else did?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know the answer to whether they were wet or not?
A. I have been told that they were urine stained.
Q. Who told you they were urine stained?
A. Detective Trujillo, Detective Wickman.
Q. Have you seen the photographs of the sheets?
A. It depends on which photographs you're talking about.
Q. Of her sheets, of the bed.
MR. DIAMOND: Have you seen any.
A. Crime scene photographs, yes.
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Did they say they could smell urine?
A. I have been told that CBI says, yes, those sheets which are still in evidence smell urine stained.
Q. And did they stain because -- well, you don't have kids, but I don't know if you've ever had a
bed-wetting accident but when you have children one day you'll probably know this to be true, urine
stained sheets, were these stained, have you seen them?
A. I have not seen the sheets.
Q. I mean, you write -- you have written in your book that JonBenet wet the bed. What I want to
know is what evidence supports that statement that you are aware of and that you found out about?
A. Urine stained sheets, the plastic bed fitting and the diapers halfway out of the cabinet.
Q. The diapers had urine on them?
A. That's not what I said.
Q. Well, I'm -- diaper halfway out of the cabinet shows that the sheets were wet or that she wet the
bed?
A. No, I think you asked me what led me to believe that she may have wet the bed.
Q. Well, I mean it seems to me that the answer is pretty simple. Did you ever go look at the
sheets? They were there for your viewing if you wanted to, weren't they?
A. No, they were at CBI.
Q. You could have picked up the phone and asked somebody at CBI about the test on them, couldn't
you?
A. No, Detective Trujillo told us.
Q. Did you ever see the written report on that finding by CBI?
A. I don't know that CBI did a report on whether or not the sheets were urine stained.
Q. Surely you're not telling me that the CBI's forensic testers performed, the only test was to smell
and look at the sheets?
A. As I said, I have been told that there is not a presumptive test for urine.
Q. How about for the substances that make up or are found in urine?
A. I have no training or knowledge of that.
Q. How big was the area of the sheets where they were urine stained or wet?
A. I don't know.
Q. Isn't there something that describes that, a report?
A. Urine stained sheets according to Trujillo.
Q. Take a look at page 146 of your book, please. Down at the paragraph that starts "John Meyer."
Do you follow me?
A. Yes.
Q. "John Meyer, the Boulder County coroner, had barely begun his autopsy findings before Lee
questioned the urine stains found on the crotch of the long-john pants and the panties beneath them."
Have I read that correctly?
A. Yes.
Q. To put this into context, this would have been during the VIP explanation or conference, right?
A. No, I don't believe so.
Q. I'm sorry, when do you believe this event took place where Meyer was going through the autopsy
findings where Henry Lee was present?
A. I believe this was in 1997 at the Boulder Police Department.
Q. Do you know when in 1997?
A. My best guess would be maybe March, February.
Q. Reading on. "Were there corresponding stains on the bed sheets? We didn't know, although
when the crime became a murder instead of a kidnapping, those sheets should have been promptly
collected for testing." Have I read that correctly?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, you didn't know in February, are you telling me that you found out subsequent in time that
the sheets were wet? When did you find out, Mr. Thomas --
MR. DIAMOND: Go ahead.
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Let me -- why don't you just tell me, when did you first find out that the
sheets were wet?
A. I do not think the sheets were collected promptly. I think it was after the fact. And one of the
questions of this investigation was that no one had checked the bed on the morning of the 26th prior to a
wet bed possibly drying whether or not the bed was wet. But the sheets nonetheless were collected
and described to me as being urine stained and just recently saw something corroborating that when
Mr. Smit appeared on the Today Show and there was a comment from the CBI about that.
Q. Traces of creatinine were found; is that what you're talking about?
A. I don't think that is what they said on the NBC show.
Q. What did they say?
A. I think it said a CBI source said the sheets were or appeared to be urine stained.
Q. Let's go back and find out not so much what NBC was talking about. Let's find out what the
police knew. Were the sheets collected on December 26th, 1996 or not?
A. They were -- I don't know. I wasn't there.
Q. What did you find out about it?
A. That at some point during the ten days subsequent to December 26, 1996, when the house was a
crime scene, those sheets were collected.
Q. At such time as they would have, if wet, been dry; is that what you're telling me?
A. Possibly.