(... and it is immediately evidennt that the BPD was BORG to the bone.) Thomas deposition
EXAMINATION BY-MR.HOFFMAN:
Q. Hello, Mr. Thomas.
A. Hello, Mr. Hoffman. How are you?
Q. Fine. How are you?
A. Fine. Thank you.
Q. Can you hear me all right?
A. I can.
Q. All right. Mr. Thomas, you have a copy of your hardcover book with you, don't you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. Could you just turn to page 14 of your book?
A. Okay.
Q. Yes, do you see the first full paragraph on page 14 that begins "The district attorney"?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Could you just read the first sentence out loud, please?
A. Certainly. "The district attorney and his top prosecutor, two police chiefs and a large number of
cops, although so at odds on some points that they almost came to blows, all agreed on one thing - that
probable cause existed to arrest Patsy Ramsey in connection with the death of her daughter."
Q. Is that an accurate statement?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I would like to ask you some questions with respect to that statement. To begin with, if you
wouldn't mind, regarding one of the two police chiefs, could you turn to page 299 of your book?
A. Okay.
Q. Yes. The second paragraph on 299 begins "Even after DeMuth's recital of our shortcomings,"
could you just read those two sentences?
A. "Even after DeMuth's recital of our shortcomings I felt we held a decent hand. Commander
Beckner told me later that he thought we had gone far beyond showing probable cause."
Q. Would you read the next sentence?
A. Certainly. "'I think she (Patty Ramsey) did it,' he said. 'We should just charge them both with
felony murder and aiding and abetting'".
Q. Is that an accurate statement of what you heard?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Did Mr. -- actually Commander Beckner tell you that personally?
A. On more than one occasion.
Q. Could you please explain or elaborate a little further on each occasion how that statement came
about?
A. Certainly. Inside the police department situation room that housed this Ramsey investigation,
there were probably a handful of occasions on which or in which Mark Beckner made statements like
that or similar to that indicating that we had sufficient facts and circumstances rising to a level of
probable cause for an arrest of Patsy Ramsey.
Q. Do you know approximately how many times -- on how many occasions he made that statement?
MR. WOOD: Wait, let me ask you a question if I could, Darnay, for clarification. Are you asking him
for -- I'm sorry, I have to get my mike on. Are you asking him for the statement that Patsy Ramsey
was a killer or for the statement that there was probable cause for an arrest, which is --
MR. HOFFMAN: I'm asking for the statement that is actually in the book which is that there is
probable cause for an arrest.
MR. WOOD: Okay. All right. That's what I wanted to clarify. Thank you.
A. Mr. Hoffman, could you repeat your question to me?
Q. (BY MR. HOFFMAN) I'm sorry, can you tell me approximately how many, the number, how
many times or how many occasions he made that statement?
A. As I may have mentioned, a handful that I overheard. There was no disputing that among the
detective team. He may have said that outside of my presence. In fact, I think he -- I think he did in
relation to what we're talking about.
Q. But within your own presence, how many times do you think approximately he said that?
MR. WOOD: Again, talking about there is probable cause for an arrest?
MR. HOFFMAN: Probable cause for an arrest, that statement.
MR. WOOD: Thank you.
Q. (BY MR. HOFFMAN) The gist of that statement that there was probable cause for an arrest?
A. A half a dozen times.
Q. Half a dozen times. Did on any of those occasions, did he explain why he felt there was probable
cause for an arrest?
A. Mr. Hoffman, at that time I think he was sufficiently familiar with the facts of the investigation to
make that conclusion on his own as did, as you previously mentioned, the other detectives in the case.
Q. All right. Do you know if the prior commander, Commander John Eller, ever commented on who
he thought may have in fact either written the ransom note or committed the crime of murdering
JonBenet Ramsey?
MR. WOOD: Do you want him to answer two questions? Why don't you ask him one at a time.
Q. (BY MR. HOFFMAN) Okay. Was there ever an occasion when John Eller expressed an
opinion as to whether or not there was probable cause to arrest someone for the murder of JonBenet
Ramsey?
A. Yeah. And, Mr. Hoffman, if you can direct me back to the first page you asked about.
MR. DIAMOND: Fourteen.
Q. (BY MR. HOFFMAN) Page 14.
A. Yeah. Eller was one of those commanders that I think I -- I'm sorry, I didn't define it as a
commander but Eller was certainly one of the large number of cops, as noted on page 14.
Q. You said there are two police chiefs. Now, I believe that Commander Beckner replaced
Commander Koby; is that correct?
A. Commander Beckner did indeed replace Chief Koby.
Q. All right. Now, was Chief Koby one of the police chiefs you're referring to?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Chief Koby ever express an opinion as to whether or not probable cause existed for someone
to be arrested for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
A. He did; he's one of the twopolice chiefs I'm referring to in thisparagraph.
Q. Do you know the substance of hisstatement; did he ever make a statement likethat in your
presence?
A. He may have but it was certainlyrelayed down through the chain of commandthrough Wickman
to the rest of us that Kobyconcurred and Koby may have very well told methat himself as well.
Q. But you presently don't have any memory of him saying it to you personally; is that correct?
A. Koby?
Q. Yes.
A. Koby was present in briefings whenprobable cause was discussed and Koby was intotal
agreement. So, yeah, I do have arecollection of Koby being present andagreeing with that concept.
Q. Did commander or Chief Koby everindicate who it was that he believed therewas sufficient
probable cause to arrest for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
A. Yes, the discussion was concerning Patricia Ramsey.
Q. And did he express a belief that Patricia Ramsey should be arrested for the murder of JonBenet
Ramsey?
A. I don't know if Koby ever went so far as allowing for an arrest to be made but certainly
concurring on probable cause.
Q. Actually what I'm trying to determine is whether or not he ever actually expressed the belief that
Patsy Ramsey should be arrested based on probable cause for the murder of her daughter?
A. My distinction would be not should be but could be. Koby was not entirely an over-aggressive
individual that was willing to take that next step.
Q. But Commander Koby, based on the evidence that you believe existed in the case, felt that there
was sufficient basis by which Patsy Ramsey could be arrested for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
A. Correct.
Q. Thank you.