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Forum Name: more and more JBR
Topic ID: 2089
Message ID: 37
#37, RE: Twisted Thinking ?
Posted by Rainsong on Feb-15-04 at 10:58 AM
In response to message #33
>"...You're looking for a physiological cause when the
>difficulty is with the twisted thinking."
>
>Okay. Consider this scenario. If a man is severely depressed
>and has persistent suicidal ideation, would you consider
>that to a form of twisted thinking? I know it is not the
>particular kind of "twisted thinking" that you were
>referring to, but it is a reasonable example of a type of
>twisted thinking.

Yes, I would consider it twisted thinking but not the same type of twisted thinking predators have.

>Now if solely testosterone is administered and no other
>chemical intervention of any sort is attempted, yet he
>undergoes an immediate and profound cure, you have clear
>indications of the role testosterone plays as a potent
>anti-depressant. That is one reason why I say that sex
>offenders have low testosterone, though the real problem is
>not with thier actual levels as it is more related to the
>circadian rythms of the hormone.

The difficulty with your logic is all sex offenders are not the same. There are various types of sex offenders because their are a multitude of motivations. Some act from their inadequacies, and those inadequacies do not stem from a limited libido but from other sources, such as growing up in a home with a bully for a father, a domineering or over-indulgent mother, a severe speech impediment, or a an emotional difficulty such as not bonding with parents at a young age.
>
>Do not think that sex offenders have 'too much
>testosterone'. Just the opposite. That is often the reason
>why 'chemical castration' is not really much of an option.
>It may change the aggressiveness but it doesn't really
>change the twisted thinking aspects. So his only choice with
>lowered aggression levels is to select a victim with lower
>abilities to resist his aggression: a very young child!

I believe the gamut of testosterone in sex offenders runs from high to low. Those feelings of inadequacy stem from a multitude of reasons: see above.

>On edit: I would like to address one issue that is
>particularly relevant to "twisted thinking". You may recall
>the questions that John Ramsey was asked early that day
>about who do you owe money to, etc? The BPD were trying to
>find a "reasonable" enemy. I'm sure John Ramsey was wracking
>his brain trying to think of a "reasonable" enemy. But it is
>an enemy with 'twisted thinking' that might be responsible.
>It would be absurd for John Ramsey to have replied to the
>BPD with a statement that five years earlier he had been
>leaving an office building and having happened to be unaware
>of a man following close behind him, he inadvertantly let
>the door close on him. John Ramsey, not being a 'twisted
>thinker', would not consider such a trivial incident as
>grounds for a long-simmering grudge that resulted in the
>death of his daughter. However, the "tisted thinker" might
>well just think exactly that.
On this we can agree.

His depression makes him view
>his problems as being related to others actions (not his own
>actions) and his only option is not to track down John
>Ramsey but to track down someone more defenseless so as to
>settle that grudge once and for all.

I have no idea what experience you have with the clinically depressed, but from my own experience, those who suffer this malady rarely have the energy to get out of bed, comb their hair or take a shower, let alone plan and carry out an intricate murder plot including a three page ransom note.

Those who hunt for weaker more easily conquered prey, the very young or the elderly, usually do so because they are not confident in their ability to interact (or assault) with their peers. Those beliefs may stem from one or more of the reasons I listed above plus many more.

Take another look at Ted Bundy. He was confident enough to date women but not confident enough to take control of his own life. His expectations of law school were not met by his local college not being the image he manifested when he thought of 'law school.' His embarrassment over the family car when other families were driving newer, sexier cars, his stepfather being nothing more than a cook, his appreciation for fine things but not the confidence to earn them...all point to a less than confident (inadequate) view of himself and his place in the world.

Bundy certainly had no difficulty in the sex department (other than connecting satisfaction with murder) since he had a steady relationship with a single female for quite a few years. There was no lack of semen found on his victims, implying he had no inadequacies in gaining and maintaining an erection or difficulties with ejaculation. His difficulty, as I said above, was he related sexual pleasure to violence and even then, he told interviewers the sex was secondary and control (power) was his "orgasm." For him, the ultimate high was his power over life and death. I can't find the quote at the moment but to paraphrase, 'With their last breath, you are God.'

Rainsong