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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
166 posts
Sep-04-03, 12:24 PM (EST)
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"No sonogram 12/23"
 
   www.modbee.com

Laci Peterson's Modesto obstetrician rebutted widely discussed reports that the pregnant woman had a sonogram Dec. 23, shortly before authorities believe she was killed.
The revelation could shake a recently floated defense theory that hinges on the age of Laci Peterson's unborn son, Conner, at the time she disappeared.

Despite a court-imposed gag order on the case, a leak to People magazine last month generated hours of speculation on several TV news and talk shows. The magazine, without citing a source, reported that an unidentified doctor had performed an ultrasound on Peterson on Dec. 23.

Other leaks -- again, hashed out on TV -- suggested that Conner's body had aged a few weeks beyond the size suggested by the supposed sonogram.

Dr. James Y.K. Yip confirmed Tuesday evening that he saw Peterson on Dec. 23, but he said the visit did not include a sonogram.

"There was no ultrasound picture of the baby that day," Yip said. "It was a routine prenatal visit for her."

Peterson's husband, Scott, has been charged in the deaths of mother and son, whose bodies were recovered in April along the eastern edge of San Francisco Bay. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. A preliminary hearing is set Oct. 20.

A source close to the double-murder case said Peterson had a sonogram in September, about three months before she went missing. She would have been about five months pregnant in September.

Forensic pathologist Harry J. Bonnell of San Diego said a Dec. 23 sonogram would have been extremely valuable for comparison with Conner's body. But experts still might predict with some accuracy Conner's size at that point -- and beyond -- by using the September sonogram, Bonnell said.

That could be crucial to Peterson's defense, if experts determine that Conner lived longer than Dec. 23, said former New York City medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden. He noted that Peterson came under law enforcement scrutiny after his wife disappeared.

"The issue here is how old the baby was," Baden said. "If the baby lived, that means Laci lived also."

His comments were made before the revelation that Peterson's last sonogram was in September.

"If (a doctor) can testify that the baby grew six weeks after (Dec. 23), that gives Scott an absolute out," Baden said. But he noted that an obstetrician's estimate on fetal age could be wrong by several weeks.

From 32 weeks until birth

fetuses typically double in weight, Baden said. There can be wide variations in the rate of the increase during that period, making sonograms less reliable for determining age in those cases, he said.

A more accurate method, Baden said, is X-raying bones for calcium deposits that form as cartilage hardens into bone while the fetus develops.

Peterson's defense team X-rayed Conner's remains earlier this month before coroner's deputies released the bodies to Laci Peterson's family.

Bonnell said either side could find experts to contradict the other.

"If you've got somebody that can throw big bucks at (some) experts," Bonnell said, "they'll tell you what you want to hear."

Bee staff writer Garth Stapley can be reached at 578-2390 or gstapley@modbee.com.


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No sonogram 12/23 [View All], Countrygirl, 12:24 PM, Sep-04-03, (0)  
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DragonFly2
Member since Jun-23-03
320 posts
Sep-04-03, 01:20 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: No sonogram 12/23"
In response to message #0
 
   I find it hard to believe that "experts" can accurately predict Conner's size. On Labor Day, TLC aired a very interesting program called "World Birth Day". It showed women having babies all around the world under very different circumstances. One of the American women they focused on was named Gwen, and she was giving birth in a very up-to-date and hi-tech hospital in San Francisco. She labored for many hours, unable to move her baby down into the birth canal. Finally, her doctor performed a C-section because Gwen's kidneys were shutting down. After the baby was removed via c-section, it was obvious why Gwen was having so much trouble. The baby, predicted to be in the normal weight range, was well OVER ten pounds! As I recall, the narrator said (paraphrasing)"With all her fancy hi-tech equipment, Gwen's doctor still didn't know the baby would be this big". Then Gwen nearly bled to death because her uterus wouldn't contract back into the normal size, despite all the doctor's best efforts. I had to stop watching before knowing the outcome, but when I stopped watching, they were talking about removing her uterus completely.

So, if this could happen (doctors not really having any idea how big the baby is)- and it does, all the time- no one can convince me they could know how much Conner would have weighed.


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mBm
Member since Jun-6-03
217 posts
Sep-04-03, 08:28 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: No sonogram 12/23"
In response to message #1
 
   I'm not very up-to-the-minute on pregnancy and births. I'd like to know if docs can tell the sex of a baby at approximately 4 months. (That is what I would estimate her pregnancy to be if she was due in mid-February.) Since they knew the baby was a boy, what is the earliest they can determine sex?


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momof6moderator
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Sep-05-03, 05:12 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: No sonogram 12/23"
In response to message #2
 
   She was a lot further along that four months. She was actually closer to eight months pregnant. She had about six to eight weeks to go in her pregnancy until her due date.

But to answer your question: The sex organs of a baby are formed by 16 weeks gestation, although, a sonogragher can usually tell the sex of the child pretty easily by 18-22 weeks gestation, or by four and a half to five months pregnant.

Hope that helps.


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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
166 posts
Sep-05-03, 11:31 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: No sonogram 12/23"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-03 AT 11:32 AM (EST)
 
Momof6, I think what mBm is saying is that Laci would have been about 4 months along at the time of her last known sonogram.

<{A source close to the double-murder case said Peterson had a sonogram in September, about three months before she went missing. She would have been about five months pregnant in September.}>


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mBm
Member since Jun-6-03
217 posts
Sep-05-03, 11:44 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: No sonogram 12/23"
In response to message #4
 
   >Momof6, I think what mBm is saying is that Laci would have
>been about 4 months along at the time of her last known
>sonogram.
>
><{A source close to the double-murder case said Peterson had
>a sonogram in September, about three months before she went
>missing. She would have been about five months pregnant in
>September.}>

Thanks, CountryGirl. That's exactly what I meant. And I figure she would have been more like four months pregnant in September, rather than five months. If her due date was supposed to be February, I think that would put her at 4 months. Especially if as has been reported, the due date was pushed back to the latter part of February.

"But to answer your question: The sex organs of a baby are formed by 16 weeks gestation, although, a sonogragher can usually tell the sex of the child pretty easily by 18-22 weeks gestation, or by four and a half to five months pregnant". So, I wonder if the Sept. sonogram was actually the last sonogram since they were so positive of the sex of the baby.


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momof6moderator
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Sep-06-03, 08:55 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: No sonogram 12/23"
In response to message #5
 
   Oh, okay! Sorry.

We don't have anything that indicates that her due date was changed.. do we? They would have changed it back in Sept. with the ultrasound and the family would tell the public and media of that changed due date, not the old one.

There would have been no reason to change the due date in the months between the ultrasound and when she died.

The family would have had the corrected due date... and they didn't.

So, I think that it is better to assume that she was indeed due on Feb. 10th.


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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
166 posts
Nov-18-03, 01:17 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #6
 
   I heard several people discussing a sonogram that took place on the 23rd...

I heard this discussion all day yesterday, and again this morning. Did anyone else hear this?


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momof6moderator
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Nov-18-03, 05:06 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #7
 
   No, she did NOT have an ultrasound on that day.


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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
166 posts
Nov-18-03, 05:28 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #8
 
   Well Momof6, not to be disrespecttul, but unless you held Laci's had all day the 23rd you cannot make that statement with certainty.

Yes, I posted the news article where her Dr. denied performing an sonogram on the 23rd, so I am aware of what has been published.

Dr's Baden and Wecht both discussed a sonogram (3 to be exact) one of which BOTH Dr's refered to the one performed on the 23rd. Maybe they know something we don't...


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Evening2
Member since Jul-7-03
362 posts
Nov-18-03, 08:35 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #9
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-03 AT 08:36 PM (EST)
 
On Greta's show last night, toward the beginning, it was said Laci DID NOT have a sonogram on December 23rd, but had one in September. However, later in the show, when Wecht and Baden were "talking", they inadvertently referenced the December 23rd sonogram (which Greta should have caught and corrected).


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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
166 posts
Nov-19-03, 02:34 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #10
 
   Corrected? Why corrected? Maybe there was a sonogram? Maybe we just don't know about it. It kinda appears that Laci went to a clinic. There is a possibility that there was a sonogram that the 'managing' OB didn't know about...there are nurses there.....

Just a thought....

JMO


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momof6moderator
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Nov-19-03, 07:08 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #11
 
   Countrygirl, there was no ultrasound. The doctor has stated that clearly. In the course of people talking, it went from "If" she had an ultrasound on the 23rd to "the ultrasound on the 23rd".

She didn't have one, according to her physician.


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Countrygirl
Member since Jun-9-03
166 posts
Nov-20-03, 12:36 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: No sonogram 12/23 ??"
In response to message #12
 
   The Dr. that made the statement is not the Dr. that examined Laci on the 23rd and is not the only Dr. in the clinic that Laci went to.


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momof6moderator
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Nov-23-03, 07:22 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: No sonogram- REALLY"
In response to message #16
 
   "Dr. James Y.K. Yip confirmed Tuesday evening that he saw Peterson on Dec. 23, but he said the visit did not include a sonogram.

"There was no ultrasound picture of the baby that day," Yip said. "It was a routine prenatal visit for her."


Hopefully that will clear it up, Laci did NOT have an ultrasound on the 23rd, she had one in September.


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