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momof6moderator
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Oct-07-03, 07:40 PM (EST)
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"Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude Key E"
 
   http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99356,00.html

Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude Key Evidence

MODESTO, Calif. — Lawyers representing Scott Peterson, the Modesto fertilizer salesman accused of killing his wife and unborn child, have asked a judge to exclude evidence, alleging two detectives mishandled the items.
Peterson's attorneys want the judge to keep strands of hair and other pieces of evidence out of the double murder case, according to documents filed late Monday at Stanislaus County Superior Court.
DNA tests have shown that the hair may belong to Peterson's slain wife, Laci, a source told The Modesto Bee before a sweeping gag order was imposed in the case.
The defense also is seeking to exclude testimony from a hypnotized neighbor and evidence from tracker dogs and tracking devices hidden in vehicles Peterson owned, rented or borrowed from family members, according to the defense documents.
Laci Peterson was almost eight months pregnant when she was reported missing Christmas Eve. Her badly decomposed body was found in April along the shore of San Francisco Bay . The body of her unborn son was discovered just over a mile away.
Scott Peterson has pleaded innocent to two counts of murder in the deaths. A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Oct. 20.
Police found a single hair in a pair of pliers at the bottom of Peterson's boat during a Dec. 27 search, according to the defense documents.
The pliers were photographed with "one hair and a specific numbered placard in the picture." Multiple police reports refer to a single hair being found, the defense contends.
Detectives Al Brocchini and Dodge Hendee "spontaneously decided to review" the hair Feb. 12, defense attorney Mark Geragos wrote in the documents.
"These two Modesto Police officers supposedly found a second strand of hair while reviewing the evidence alone and without any supervision by a criminalist or lab technician," Geragos wrote.
The two hairs were submitted to a state Department of Justice crime lab the next day along with two of Laci Peterson's hairbrushes, according to the documents.
The defense contends that the DNA tests used are unreliable and that the detectives broke "the chain of custody" when they examined the items alone.
Geragos also contends that all tracking evidence is unreliable and should be excluded.


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Isabella
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Oct-07-03, 09:18 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-03 AT 09:20 PM (EST)
 
I'm not sure if I believe Fox News or not.

I have heard/read rumours of the hair found in the boat, but we have not heard MPD confirm it.

IF THERE IS A HAIR IN THE BOAT, AND IT WAS MATCHED UP BEFORE THOSE COPS "BROKE THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY" that is completely imcriminating evidence against SP in my opinion.

I have been doing alot of reading on the case, mostly forums. There are so many out there shouting SP's innocence.

One of the most fascinating things I read was why isn't LE looking for Laci's head? We know they have been back out to the Bay, presumably looking for anchors, but who knows why?

13 days and counting.


(Edited to correct my math :)


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momof6moderator
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Oct-08-03, 07:19 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #1
 
   They have returned out to the bay, both in boats and the shore. We know that something was found, but we do not know what was found because of the gag order.


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Isabella
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Oct-08-03, 09:03 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #2
 
   Mom, how do we know they found something? I don't remember reading that. I would think if it was Laci's head, it would have leaked.

It makes me shudder to write that sentence....


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momof6moderator
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Oct-08-03, 09:22 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #3
 
   I don't know.. nothing was leaked, and the security was VERY tight. But I think much will come out in the preliminary. But they did say that something was found.


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DragonFly2
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Oct-08-03, 09:38 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #4
 
   **One of the most fascinating things I read was why isn't LE looking for Laci's head? We know they have been back out to the Bay, presumably looking for anchors, but who knows why?**


Who says they AREN'T looking for her head? I think they're looking for whatever evidence is still in the bay (but it must be like looking for needles in haystacks). That would include whatever other parts of Laci are still there....

And it may still be attached to an anchor.

Gruesome.


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Isabella
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Oct-08-03, 09:42 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #5
 
   Have you heard of guy named David Sween? Suppposedly he is a police detective who is stating Laci was shot in the head, and that is why her head is missing.

Do a search on David Sween and you will probably find his web site spouting SP's innocence. He also believes all of the leaks have came from MPD. I'm confused by who he is, that's why I ask if you have heard of him.

Poor Laci.

Can't wait for the preliminary hearing.


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DragonFly2
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Oct-08-03, 02:01 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #6
 
   Well, I haven't found his website- I just found alot of links mentioning him in passing- some touting him as some world-renowned genius who has solved the Moxley & Levy murders (umm, then why is no one in JAIL for Chandra Levy??).

Others say he has "proven" that Scott Peterson is innocent....ummmm, 'scuse me, Mr Big Shot Sween, how you claim that when you haven't seen all the EVIDENCE? (I mean, although I THINK Scott is guilty, I'm apt to change my mind once I see the evidence (or possible lack therof)- and I'm not claiming to have "proven" Scott's guilt).

Sounds like a lot of hoo-haw to me......I'd like to find an actual website of his- I wasn't able to to get onto alot of the sites mentioning him because I'm using my computer from work while on lunch break, and it has a pretty strong filter (no access to free pages, etc)....


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LadyBugmoderator
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Oct-08-03, 02:27 PM (EST)
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8. "Defense Questions Hair Evidence"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-09-03 AT 01:09 AM (EST)
 
* Because somehow for some reason, my post was edited parts were deleted along with a note on the last few lines. I always preview before I submit, therefor I know what I post and I also know what HTML I use.

Modbee.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted on 10/08/03 05:35:11 A.M. PDT
By JOHN COTÉ
BEE STAFF WRITER

Scott Peterson's defense team may have a tough time keeping out evidence from hair attached to a pair of pliers found in his boat, legal observers said.

"It sounds like a play out of the O.J. Simpson playbook," said San Francisco Assistant District Attorney James Hammer, alluding to the defense contention that police planted evidence in that murder case.

Peterson's defense is claiming that police mishandled evidence after officers initially reported finding a single 5- to 6-inch dark hair on the pliers Dec. 27.

Two strands of hair were noted after two detectives checked out the items from the Modesto police evidence room weeks later, according to defense documents filed Tuesday in Stanislaus County Superior Court.

The hairs and two hairbrushes used by Laci Peterson were submitted the next day to a state Department of Justice crime lab for analysis, according to the documents.

Defense attorney Mark Geragos wrote that it is "reasonably certain the evidence has been altered in some way," adding that officers reviewed the evidence without supervision by a criminalist or lab technician.

DNA tests show the hair could have belonged to Laci Peterson, a source has said.

Physically linking Laci Peterson to her husband's newly purchased fishing boat -- bought in early December while she was about seven months pregnant -- is "potentially very powerful evidence," Hammer said.

Peterson said he last saw his wife on the morning of Dec. 24 before taking the boat on a solo fishing trip to San Francisco Bay. He told police he returned to find her gone from their Modesto home.

Her body and that of her unborn son, Conner, were found in April along the bay's eastern shore, within four miles of where Peterson said he launched his boat.

Peterson has been charged with two counts of murder in the deaths. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.

The defense is using various arguments to try and exclude from court an array of evidence, including information from wiretaps, scent-tracking dogs and GPS tracking devices hidden in Peterson's vehicles. The defense also wants to bar testimony from a witness police had hypnotized.

The issues are to be hashed out at preliminary hearing set for Oct. 20.

Several legal observers said it may be difficult to keep the hair evidence out on the basis that police broke the so-called chain of custody.

Modesto police spokesman Detective Doug Ridenour refused to discuss the Peterson case, citing a gag order in the case. But Ridenour said that in general, detectives can look at items that have already been logged into the secure evidence room.

"They have every right in the world to check the evidence out to do further investigation," Ridenour said.

Evidence can re-examined

Detectives assigned to a case can check items out from evidence clerks after specifying why they need to re-examine the item, Ridenour said. Officers can privately examine the evidence in small rooms with locked doors adjoining the evidence room lobby. Ridenour said he was not aware of any security cameras to monitor activity in those rooms.

Many explanations for extra hair

There are explanations short of planting evidence to explain the appearance of a second hair after police reports only referred to a single hair, said Dr. Michael Baden, a New York forensic pathologist who worked on Simpson's defense team when the former football star was accused of killing his ex-wife and her friend in 1995.

"Sometimes people can make a mistake," Baden said. "Some kinds of hair can break."

Roger C. Park, an evidence law specialist at the University of California's Hastings College of the Law, said the appearance of two hairs did not automatically taint the evidence.

"The fact that it was one hair here and two hairs later, I don't know if that's enough for a jury to conclude it wasn't the same hair sample," Park said.

If prosecutors could effectively demonstrate the hair they want to submit was found on the pliers in the boat, a judge would be compelled to allow it into evidence, observers said.

"It all comes back to relevancy," said Bradley Brunon, a prominent Los Angeles defense attorney. "There has to be enough reliable identification of the source and identity of the hair to connect it the investigation."

"The significance would be for the jury to decide," he said.

That significance was an open question, according to some observers.

"Her hair would have some evidentiary significance if she'd never been in that boat before," Baden said.
"Then the issue comes up, what if one hair got caught on Scott's clothing and then was passed to the boat and dropped there?"

Bee staff writer John Coté can be reached at 578-2394 or jcote@modbee.com.

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/7561226p-8471812c.html


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Isabella
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Oct-08-03, 02:41 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-03 AT 02:41 PM (EST)
 
>Sounds like a lot of hoo-haw to me......I'd like to find an
>actual website of his- I wasn't able to to get onto alot of
>the sites mentioning him because I'm using my computer from
>work while on lunch break, and it has a pretty strong filter
>(no access to free pages, etc)....

Dragonfly, I'm not sure he has an actual website, but I found the same as you, lots of web forums containing spam spouting the same message. They all sound more to me like an assault on law enforcement, rather than an actual belief or knowledge that SP is . It sure makes for interesting reading, and I have read some valid points.

I'm at work too, hope I don't get caught, I'm going to have to train myself to stay off once things get going on October 20 :)


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Sam
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Oct-08-03, 03:03 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #9
 
   No.1 the chain of custody has not been broken, I don't know what Gerragoes is talking about. The police had a search warrent for his truck and boat. When crime scene was conducted on the boat the hair was found. How does that break the chain of custody??
David Sween must be an idiot. How does he know Laci wa shot in the head?
There is no evidence of that at the Peterson home where police beleave the murder took place.
Laci's head is missing so no evidence there. This person is spewing venum and doesn't know what he's talking about.


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DragonFly2
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Oct-09-03, 09:42 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #10
 
   One more thing about this David Sween character- on one particular site, they described him as the "so-called professional who considers every high-profile suspect as unjustly framed".

I've also read this concerning him: "Still touting the non-existent "criminal investigator" David Sween from the non-existent news service on the bogus web page?"

So who knows if this guy is even for real at all.....if anyone finds a website that seems to be "owned" by him, I'd like to know where it is.

I read a lengthy, rambling article seemingly written by him on a "wrtv" website which I can no longer seem to find.....it made very little sense, though- he seems to be a 'conspiracy theorist', very paranoid.


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Mikiemoderator
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Oct-08-03, 03:05 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #9
 
   In the Blagg case, there was a bullet found in the head of Jennifer Blagg. It was not traceable to any gun that was found in the home. In other words the murder weapon is not found. But her head was not cut off. I think it is just an assumption by that detective that if the head is missing it was removed to hide evidence like that.


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Isabella
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Oct-08-03, 04:07 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #11
 
   Mikie, you said:

I think it is just an assumption by that detective that if the head is missing it was removed to hide evidence like that.

that's the way I took it too. It's just an ASSUMPTION on the part of Mr. Sween. Personally, I think Laci's head is missing, because her neck gave way through decomposition.


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rosario_c
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Oct-08-03, 06:34 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Peterson Attorneys Seek to Exclude K"
In response to message #12
 
   Could it have been possible that the two hairs were stuck together? I've seen that happen with my own hairs. Looks like one coarse hair, but in fact were two stuck together like with water, oils or hairspray, etc. I've also seen a hair on my counter, and when I went to brush it off, it was in fact two hairs together. Anyone know what I'm talking about?


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LadyBugmoderator
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14. "Understanding The Defense"
In response to message #13
 
   LE had a leak they had found a hair in or near pliers on the bottom of the boat. ( could have passed from Scott to the boat easily)

Then shortly after LE took 2 of Laci's hairbrushes.
Then they said they have two hairs. Did the first hair break? or did they mix up their evidence. (?)...hairs and hairbrushes!!!

Reminders of the days of LAPD, BPD IMO.


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momof6moderator
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Oct-09-03, 07:32 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Understanding The Defense"
In response to message #14
 
   I was under the impression that the second hair was found the next day and after that they got the brushes...

If the hair on the pliers is a match for Laci and they were found in the boat, then they should only enter into evidence that hair and not the second one.

Also, couldn't they tell the difference between the hairs, by testing for salt, or whatever was in the boat.. I mean if it is a clean hair like out of a brush, wouldn't it show in a test? I would imagine that the one found in the boat had stuff on it from being in the toolbox or the boat itself... was there blood on this second hair or on the first hair found tangled in the pliers?


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DragonFly2
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Oct-09-03, 09:25 AM (EST)
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16. ""Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #15
 
   MG is trying to exclude evidence- that is his job to do so, especially when the evidence is potentially damaging to his client. Laci's hair, found twisted in a pair of pliers on Scott's boat, is potentially damaging because it possibly places her on a boat which according to Scott she didn't even know about.

What difference is there if it was one hair or two hairs- if they match, then it makes no difference whatsoever, in my opinion.

This contention that LE is "planting" evidence is rather insulting if you ask me....seems to me that they'd need to do a better job than adding ONE hair to the one already found.


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Sam
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Oct-09-03, 09:47 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #16
 
   IMO, the hair found on the needle nose pliers in the boat is probably the result of wire being used to tie a cement ankor around Laci's neck. Then cement ankors were probably attached around her legs (knee area) by evidence of her legs missing from that area down and her head missing. The torso after decomposition and the wire cutting through then dis-attached and washed ashore. The head and lower legs are still probably on the bay floor. Since not much is left but skelton remains and they don't float.


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Isabella
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Oct-09-03, 11:01 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #18
 
   One of the things I read on another board, the writer believed it was virtually impossible for Laci and her son's bodies to wash up in the same area, within a day of each other, considering the vastness of the ocean, etc.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? It does seem odd that they washed up near one another, and in the same time frame.

Sam, do you think they will find remaining parts of Laci?


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Sam
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20. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #19
 
   I'm not going to say it's impossible to find any more of laci's remains but highly unlikely.
We don't know when Connor came out before Laci broke free from the cement ankors are after. The current washed both up on shore I don't see anything strange about that.
This so called criminal investigator SWEEN is a complete idiot and wouldn't make a pimple on my a##.
I don't think he is a criminal investigator just someone claiming to be. I can't beleave he gets so much attention.
I read where he states Amber was brought in to frame Scott. That is so rediculouse it's funny !!!!


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DragonFly2
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Oct-09-03, 01:03 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #20
 
   You know, everyone saying that it's so "unlikely" that Laci & Conner would be found in such close proximity within a day of each other is thinking of Laci and Conner as SEPERATE......It's almost like saying that finding her torso and her leg in such close proximity is unlikely- Conner was PART of her BODY!

They must be assuming that here is Laci's body, anchored down, decomposing, and Conner finally breaks thru the abdominal wall and breaks free, then within the next 24 hours Laci breaks free of the anchors.

I think what probably happened is that at some point Laci broke free of her anchors, with her abdominal wall already ragged and being "fed" upon by marine life, etc.....as her body is making it's way thru currents to the shore, it's being tattered even more, and at some point fairly close to shore, Conner finally breaks free.

Graphic, maybe, but this case is graphic....



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Sam
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Oct-09-03, 01:14 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #21
 
   That sounds logical to me DragonFly.


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Mikiemoderator
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Oct-09-03, 02:49 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #22
 
   Don't forget that the sonar detected something several weeks before the body washed ashore.


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momof6moderator
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Oct-09-03, 03:23 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #23
 
   And the image that has been circulated on the net of the sonar, depicts a pregnant body, with possibly infants feet protruding through the abdomen. I will try and find the link for that.

But I think it is very likely that Conner broke free from Laci just a day or so prior, if not that day itself and they floated along, winding up close to each other. I, too, believe that her legs will be found, chained or cemented into blocks on the bottom of the ocean where the sonar image found something. Her head is probably near by the feet.


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Isabella
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Oct-09-03, 03:32 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #24
 
   I hope you are right, Momof6. Finding the rest of Laci will be a good thing for her family, and if they do find her feet anchored in cement, it will help to bring her killer to justice.

Please do post that image if you can locate it. I don't remember seeing it...


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momof6moderator
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Oct-10-03, 07:29 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #25
 
   I found this article:

http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1353998,00.html


Cops' big secret in Laci's death
Sonar experts located body in Bay in March
By William Brand, STAFF WRITER
POINT ISABEL -- Weeks before the remains of Modesto's Laci Peterson and her unborn son Connor washed up on the Richmond shoreline, investigators say they had found her watery grave through side-scan sonar that penetrated the inky darkness inside a Chevron shipping channel.
But before they could retrieve the bodies, they believe a heavily laden tanker passed over or near the burial spot, churning up the channel's bottom and dislodging the sunken corpses.

The wind, choppy waves and high incoming tides influenced by the full moon -- as well as gases from the deteriorating remains -- combined to eventually bring the bodies to shore.

Sources said the original grave site was miles away from where the only suspect in the case, Laci's husband Scott Peterson, told police he had gone fishing Christmas Eve. That was the day Laci, eight months pregnant, was reported missing, triggering a search that received national attention.

Modesto Police Chief Roy Wasden confirmed investigators believe they found the body as early as mid-March, but could not retrieve it. "The waves came up and we couldn't go down. I can't tell you the frustration we felt," Wasden said.

No one who participated in the search said a word to reporters waiting on shore the day the sonar detected Laci's body. "We thought if the suspect knew we had found her, he might flee," one law enforcement source said.

But with Scott Peterson now in jail on charges of killing Laci and Connor, those close to the investigation confirmed the detection of Laci's body weeks before it washed ashore April 14.

Sources say the remains, possibly wrapped in some sort of plastic and held down by heavy material, were found by side-scan sonar deep in a shipping channel of San Francisco Bay, about 4 miles off Brooks Island.

That's the spot of land just south of the Richmond shoreline where Peterson, 30, told police he spent the morning of Christmas Eve fishing for sturgeon.

The Bay around the island is extremely shallow -- a marine chart shows low-tide depths of less than 3 feet -- not the kind of place to find sturgeon or dump a body.

The only deep water in the vicinity is to the west, in a shipping channel that is regularly dredged to allow ocean-going vessels into port.

Strollers found Laci's unborn baby, Connor, in a tidal pond about 250 yards east of the last house in Richmond's Marina Bay on the afternoon of April 13.

Laci's partial remains -- her torso and a leg -- were discovered the next day, less than a mile across the Richmond inner harbor, lodged in concrete rip rap at Point Isabel, the popular East Bay Regional Park District dog-walking park.

A state lab in Richmond identified Laci and Connor by DNA analysis April 18.

"When those remains washed up, it confirmed everybody's suspicions," one source said. "We know where she was put, and it wasn't in that shallow area around Brooks Island," the source said.

"But when we got back out there, she was gone."

Shipping channel theory

A veteran San Francisco Bar Pilot captain, not connected to the case, said last week that the shipping channel theory sounds plausible.

Although most people may not realize it, much of the deep water in the Bay is in the shipping channels, which are dredged, said Capt. Blake Coney -- one of more than 60 expert pilots who guide ships in and out of the Bay by navigating treacherous, shifting shoals of sand.

Large tankers carrying heavy crude oil headed for the big Chevron Refinery in Richmond often have barely 2 feet of water under their keels at low tide, Coney said. The channel is dredged to about 43 feet deep, but those heavily laden tankers draw nearly that much water, he said.

A ship's screws could churn things up, Coney said.

'Like a movie plot'

"This sounds like a movie plot, and it's creepy," he said.

Coney noted that marine charts show low-tide soundings throughout the Bay. They mostly indicate depths of less than 10 feet everywhere except in the dredged channels.

Of course, the water is deeper when the tide flows into the Bay and the low-tide numbers are "mean numbers" -- the depth midway between the lowest recorded low tide and the highest low tide.

The nearest deep water from Brooks Island or from the Berkeley Marina, where Peterson said he launched his small boat, is Southampton Shoal Channel. It's the route that tankers going to Chevron take.

Outbound tankers take a wider route, more than a mile further west.

Coney added that even if Laci's killer intended to dump her in the shipping channel, then it would be easy to make a mistake.

"The sides are toed in (sloping)," he said. "But it would be very easy to miss the deepest part of the channel, get (the body) in 6 feet rather than 30 feet of water."

That's why ships entering and leaving the Bay must employ a San Francisco Bar Pilot, he said. Smiling, he recalled how the U.S. Navy supercarrier USS. Enterprise once ran aground off the Alameda Naval Air Station because its captain ignored advice from a bar pilot.

Meanwhile, Modesto Police Chief Wasden said investigators intend to follow up leads to the rest of the remains.

At a news conference last week, when he announced results of the DNA tests and the arrest of Scott Peterson near San Diego, Wasden credited volunteers, divers, search-and-rescue experts, and sonar experts who painstakingly probed the bottom of the Bay from the Berkeley Marina north to Brooks Island, then west to the shipping channel.

Among others, he mentioned Gene Ralston, a Boise, Idaho, side-scan sonar expert who helped Modesto detectives search the bottom of the Bay.

Ralston would not comment last week about the initial discovery of Laci's body.

Submerged bodies

But Ralston, who has donated his services, said he's hopeful a new search would yield the rest of the young woman's remains. He noted his sonar is very sophisticated and he has helped find submerged bodies many times.

Another member of his firm has been participating in a search of lakes and reservoirs in Texas, looking for parts of the space shuttle Columbia.

"This sonar is the best way to see stuff underwater," Ralston said. "In San Francisco Bay, because of all the silt, you've got zero visibility on the bottom.

"At the range we're looking at, I've seen things as small as a half-gallon can, a small coffee can. The bottom varies; there are some rocky areas and lots of smooth, mud bottom. Some places the floor is reticulated -- like the surface of the moon -- there are little pockmarks."

Ralston said he's prepared to help again. "We're optimistic we'll be able to find the rest," he said. "I only hope we can get there before the killer hires someone to go out. You know, money talks."

Investigators would not comment.

Those who know a lot about angling question Peterson's story about fishing around Brooks Island.

"I don't believe I would have tried fishing around there," said Gary Freedman, who works at the Berkeley Marina Sports Center, a supplier for fishermen.

"The day was windy and cold, and mostly sturgeon like deep water," he said. "I don't think my choice would have been to fish that day and if I did, I would have been more inclined to launch my small boat at Antioch or Pittsburg -- closer to where the fish are."

Back at the spot where the Bay gave up Laci Peterson, bedraggled flowers and rain-soaked teddy bears mark a make-shift shrine.

People still come, add a flower, or a note, and stand for a moment, staring silently at the windswept Bay.




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momof6moderator
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27. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #26
 
   All of the above and below was found at yahoo.com


http://www.rense.com/general33/evpcase.htm


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momof6moderator
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28. "RE: "Splitting Hairs""
In response to message #27
 
   I also could no longer get the actual image of the sonar, it has been taken down. I did find a sketch that someone did, and it is VERY accurate to what was shown on TV and internet that was the actual image of what they believed to be Laci, with a baby's foot and lower leg protruding from the woman's abdomen.


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Isabella
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Oct-10-03, 09:05 AM (EST)
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29. "Side Scan Sonar"
In response to message #28
 
   Momof6, I sorta remember seeing the photos you are talking about, I'm not sure if it was those photos or the photos of the beach where she was found.

I'm looking for the photos too, haven't had any luck yet either. But here is an interesting article from January.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi%2Dbin/article.cgi%3Ff=/c/a/2003/01/12/BA34245.DTL

Divers find anchor, not body
Family relieved object wasn't Modesto woman

Divers searching for the body of Laci Peterson in the murky waters of the Berkeley Marina made no progress Saturday, as what they thought might be a body turned out to be an old rusty boat anchor.

Although that discovery relieved Peterson's family and friends, it further frustrated investigators with remarkably few leads in their search for the pregnant 27-year-old, who vanished on Christmas Eve.

Investigators are no closer to finding Peterson than when she disappeared, and their daylong search of the marina -- the fourth by Modesto police -- probably will be the last, said Modesto police Sgt. Ron Cloward.

Investigators have focused heavily on the marina because that is where Peterson's husband, Scott Peterson, claims to have spent the day fishing when his wife disappeared. They returned on Saturday because a sonar used during a search on Thursday discovered an object that police said could be a human body.

Although investigators have not called Scott Peterson, a 30-year-old fertilizer salesman, a suspect in his wife's disappearance, suspicion continues to swirl around him.

Many of those crowded into a volunteer center at the Red Lion Hotel in Modesto hugged and applauded at word that the mysterious object in the marina was just an anchor.

"I had to laugh," said Susan Peterson Caudillo, who came from her home in San Diego County to help search for her missing sister-in-law. "I just think it's really funny that it was a boat anchor. It's like -- hello."

Caudillo said she hopes the cloud hanging over her brother's head will at long last be lifted.

"We're thrilled that it's over and that there is no more waiting," she said.

"We want all avenues researched and we understand that Scott is part of that. But maybe now we can move on. I would love to see (investigators) efforts put in other areas."

Divers discovered the object Thursday near the end of the old Berkeley pier about two miles from shore. Police said they believed there was a "50-50 chance" that it was a body, but unfavorable weather and diver fatigue forced them to discontinue the search until Saturday.

Nearly 100 police, sheriff's deputies and divers from Alameda, Solano, San Mateo and Stanislaus counties returned to the marina early Saturday morning.

Divers hit the frigid water at about 11 a.m., diving one at a time to depths of 25 to 27 feet and searching the muddy bay floor by hand. Alameda County sheriff's Capt. Gene Battaglia, who led the search, said they hoped to cover 18,432 square feet.

Reporters and passers-by jammed the Marina to watch as boats filled with volunteers and equipment left the launch. CNN and Geraldo Rivera were there, as were reporters from throughout the state.

The search came on the same day Peterson's friends and family had planned to attend a baby shower. Peterson, who was eight months pregnant when she disappeared, was due to give birth to the couple's first baby -- a boy -- Feb. 10. Her friend Rene Tomlinson, who was organizing the party, had already sent invitations bearing a nautical theme.

"Today should have been a day of celebration," said Kim McNeely, another friend who spent much of Saturday at the Red Lion waiting for news and fielding phone calls. "Instead, we're here."

McNeely said she and eight other women held a slumber party in Peterson's honor Friday night. They listened to music and toasted their missing friend with champagne. The women often gathered for slumber parties when they attended high school. They resumed the tradition when Peterson returned to Modesto from San Luis Obispo, where she graduated from college.

"I know that people always say that (a missing person) is so great, but with her it's so true," said Katerina Pike, a friend of Peterson's from college. "She's just this bubbly, giggly person, and she and Scott are just giddy over each other. Everything was falling into place for her."


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momof6moderator
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30. "RE: Side Scan Sonar"
In response to message #29
 
   Here is a link to the sketch that was done...

http://www.scumbagoftheyear.com/sketch.htm

That was found on Yahoo search. I believe that Gene Ralston was the one with the actual sonar image and what I have been able to find out was that it was evidence or being considered so it was now under the gag order and protected... so if any of you out there happened to view the actual image and save it to hard drive, let us know what you feel the comparison is with the sketch that was done. I think it is right on.

The only reason that it is interesting to see this is because it disproves the theory of her being used in a ritual and that Conner may have been used as a sacrifice of sorts. I think this image would prove that wasn't true. It would also clear up that Conner was not born and was never alive outside of Laci's body.


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Countrygirl
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Oct-10-03, 11:42 AM (EST)
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31. "rense site"
In response to message #30
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 11:43 AM (EST)
 
Momof6, I read that rense site a long time ago. I don't honesty know when the post were made but if the dates are accurate and posted promptly it is very, very weird. Not to mention accurate.

I don't know how the rest of you feel about it, but listening to the voices scared the bejeezers out of me.


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DragonFly2
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Oct-10-03, 12:02 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #31
 
   I never saw the side scan sonar pictures, but this sketch is odd in that the body appears to be free floating, not tied or anchored to anything....did the artist leave that out, or was it never in the picture?

I'd really like to see the original picture- if anyone finds it, please try to post it here....my computer at home has a virus, and this one at work has such a strong filter that altho I got to see the sketch, I couldn't access the link to the sonar picture the sketch page featured.

And, Countrygirl, I too read the rense webpages a long time ago.....very bizarre. I'd really be interested to see what further messages the "folks" told that lady....


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MiLa
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Oct-10-03, 01:17 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #32
 
   The image portrayed in the scetch has all extremeties, yet when Laci's remains were discovered, both forearms/hands, both feet and one leg were no longer attached.

i don't recall seeing Laci's actual image. in fact, i believe that was one point of contention between LE and Ralston because LE didn't keep a copy of the image as Ralston suggested.


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jamesonadmin
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34. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #33
 
   How do you know the sonar image you saw was not some kind of mock-up? Where was it shown? Exactly where did they say it came from?

Hard for something like that to get on the air and then not one person has a copy of it anywhere... I am just hesitant to accept it as the real thing.

As for the head and extremities being missing - I would thing if someone were weighted down by those extremities, the bindings would put pressure on those areas and as the body decomposed.... I just don't think it is a surprise those areas would separate.


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Mikiemoderator
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35. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #34
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 02:13 PM (EST)
 
Here's another example of sidescan from Ralston's website. I suppose the Laci sidescan is under gag order so it would be illegal for anyone, especially Ralston, to post it. But this gives an idea of the detail achievable. (edited spelling)


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DragonFly2
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Oct-10-03, 02:29 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #35
 
   I have to say that I too am skeptical about this side scan picture....although I haven't seen it. But just the sketch seems too "complete" for me.... and too sterile. In the sketch the body seems to be floating freely, not wrapped up in anything, not anchored to anything.

And just because it's under "gag order" doesn't mean it wouldn't pop up somewhere. You cannot "gag" what has already come out- lots of the news media is still discussing details that came out before the gag order went into effect....and they are still printing copies of partial autopsy results- the gag order would cover EVERYTHING related to Laci, but only what hasn't come out YET- it can't cover what is already "out there".

I think this whole side scan picture is a hoax....the real one wouldn't be so detailed.....and so "whole". Just my opinion, of course.....


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momof6moderator
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37. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #36
 
   I have to say that I have seen sonar that is EXTREMELY detailed..


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rosario_c
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38. "RE: rense site"
In response to message #35
 
   OK...now if that sonar information is true, and it showed Connor's leg protruding from Laci, would his leg have been more decomposed compared to the rest of his little body? Maybe that's something that hasn't been told? And may be some proof that a side sonar scan was taken and was indeed Laci and Connor.

Does anyone think the prelim will once againbe postponed since Mark G is supposed to be in LA on another case? I sure hope not...


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Countrygirl
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39. "sonar image"
In response to message #38
 
   I saw the image that we are discussing. I can't see how an image of Laci (if it was indeed her) could gotten posted on the net and questioned it's authenticity when I saw it.

But even tho I question it, if I remember correctly I could see something that looked like rope coming from the bottom of the image, but I don't remember seeing legs or anything extending from the image. I guess I just figured that it was a hand or arm that I saw.

I only believe about half of what I see on the internet anyways.. but that's just me.


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MiLa
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Oct-11-03, 11:39 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: 'image' in sketch vs. sonar image"
In response to message #39
 
   i believe that decomp in the water, over the length of time that the remains were submerged, is the most likely explanation for the limbs being detached from the body. the autopsy report seems to support decomp because tool marks one would expect on dismembered remains are said not to be present. LE has a theory that ocean going vessels navigating through the bay, may have played a part in the condition of the remains. that seems to be a plausible explanation.

i am leary of the authentisity of the 'image' of the sketch of the sonar image. i 'mentioned' the fact that all of Laci's extremeties appear intact in the sketch be considered in contrast with the actual condition of her remains when found. is it possible the remains became dismembered during the time the image of the sketch of the sonar image was made and the time the remains were found? sure. is it possible the image represents the artists' interpertation of what the actual sonar image might look like? i think it looks like artistic interpertation. in my opinion it bears no resemblence to examples of underwater sonar images i have seen at Ronston's site.


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DragonFly2
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Oct-12-03, 04:46 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: 'image' in sketch vs. sonar image"
In response to message #40
 
   Like I've said, tho.....I havent seen the actual picture, just the artist's sketch.....but the body isn't ATTACHED to anything, it isn't WRAPPED up, like in a tarp....that's the main reason I'm skeptical of the sonar picture. If it looks like the sketch, then I find it difficult to believe it's the real deal.


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LadyBugmoderator
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42. "FYI"
In response to message #41
 
   Searching through archives for 'sonar', I found these threads in the time I was allotted. There may be more...
http://www.webbsleuths.com/dcf/DCForumID105/726.html


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